Autistic Girl Kicked out of Girl Scouts

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When I use the phrase "toughen them up", I'm not refering to giving up on life. I'm refering to being able to cope with the same expectations that "normal" people are held to. In this case though, it doesn't work. No matter how much you try and treat a severely disabled person as an "equal", they'll never be able to live without assistance. So telling them to "toughen up, and cope" is cruel.

But if someone is capable of achieving higher education and living independantly, then is it really in their best interest for their parents to constantly shelter them?

"They'll be bullied in regular education, better put them in special ed."
"Higher education and getting a job will be too hard for them, better set them up with welfare."
"Why should I teach them how to cook and do laundry? They'll end up in a group home anyways."

And yes, I HAVE met parents of AS people who are exactly like this. The adults with AS that I've met who didn't have parents like this are able to function. The ones who do have parents like this are not able to function.

Yeah, and this is a really, really, Autistic child. She was doing well with the so called "normal" children. For her to be kicked out when trying to be with other children with special needs is just weird and backward. I almost want to go back and reread thinking i got it backwards.

Oh great, another set of parents using "autism" as an excuse. The club kicked her out because they don't want to be held accountable for her actions. What if she seriously hurts herself, the parents can sue them for it. Because there are so many idiots out there suing, places have to keep themselves safe from being sued. How do they know the parents aren't the kind of people who will do it?

She was kicked out of the special needs section. If she can't even be herself there...*shakes head*

I know she was in it but I don't think you understand. There are people out there who sue for their own faults. I have heard of fast food places having to kick families out because their wouldn't settle their kids because they were too rowdy, running around, not following rules, especially at playlands. Well if the child gets hurt, some parents sue the restaurant for it because they don't want to be responsible for their own actions for failing to do their job as a parent. Well in this case, the girl did self injuries, what if one day she injured herself so bad the parents decide to sue the group because "they failed to handle their child."

The people probably don't know how to handle the meltdowns and if the parents were there with her as the group went on, then maybe things would have been better. They would be there in case the girl got meltdowns and they would work with her through them and the group wouldn't have to worry about it.

It's sad really that places have to kick kids out because so many people sue because they don't want to be responsible for their actions or they just want money. Just an idea one of my my friends had about if it was right of them to kick her out or not and I agreed.

Scouts has a national policy against discrimination? Come again? Don't they famously not let gays in? Or... are lesbians welcome to be girl scouts?

Makes me want to stay in college so I can go to law school. It really does...

I think they need to explicitly state that they are a private club and do not have to accept everyone. They need to state that they do not accept people with LFA. Ah. But that would make them look like monsters, wouldn't it?

Now, even NT kids will have tantrums (though 8 is REALLY pushing it). I wonder what their limit would have been with an NT. Why kick her out after the first incident when she didn't do anything to any of the other kids? Is it because they knew that with autism, that she'd just keep doing it? What about with an NT, maybe that kid is just a brat who would keep doing it.

Eh. Private club. You can't win this one. You can be pissed off, you can consider them monsters, you can NOT buy girl scout cookies (I don't), but what can you actually do?


I noticed that too and just thought she was extremely short. When I was in gymnastics all throughout my childhood, some of those girls were 8 but about the height of a four year old. We called them "winners".

First of all, my intent is not to offend anyone in this post. I just want to express this sense of incredulousness I feel.

I am left wondering after reading this thread...how many of you posting on it are actually autistic?
It's very clear who the real autistics are in this thread.
WP is supposed to be a support/advocacy site for autistics. And yet. Soooooooo many who posted on this thread do not seem bothered by the fact an autistic child is being discriminated against by one of the major children's organizations in the US.
Some of you posted in negative stereotypical verse as well, refusing to see Magi as an individual with unique potential, only as a diagnostic label, dismissing her based on that, not even attempting to understand anything from her point of view.
After reading the story several times, I still do not understand why Magi was removed from a troop she had been with for two years, a troop of abled bodied, NT kids whom I am sure she was starting to bond with and identify with, only to be put into another troop with physically disabled kids. I am sure it must have been really confusing to her. She probably didn't understand the change, what it meant, and what people were saying about her as an individual.

Right at the beginning of the Article it says that her troop got too large. It was probably stressful for her, so her parents moved her to the smaller special ed group.

Perhaps what you read in the original article is only part of the story? News reports tend to do that - they've interviewed her parents, who are quoted freely. I see nothing from the new troop in question, nothing from the troup leader. Buyer beware with the media.

Exactly.

And picking your battles carefully is not giving up, either. It's not squandering resources, effort.

Given that all we know about the girl and the episode is from a news release (and those tend to be a bit, well let's just say journalism is alive and well), we don't know much about the girl, really. Mention the word "Autism" and it's like they've hit a live electric line - at present. Ten years ago it wasn't, and in 10 more it may not be. But for now, it is. "Causes" are fickle, like that.

But back to it - the rest of this is not directed at you, ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo, specifically, but the "out there" in general. What if there is no "suitable" troop? What if no other troop wishes to have her as a member? You cannot force a group to accept her. You simply cannot force these things. That's life, the nature of humanity, sorry! Cliques, "in" and "out" groups, us vs them. You'll notice the United Nations is a lovely idea, but hasn't done all that much in the grand scheme of things. If you want to go anthropological/biological, you can even see the behaviors in similar species, such as chimps.

If you (anyone) think that mandating any group to accept the placing of a child into their midst, into an environment where she is not welcomed, will magically make her "accepted," you haven't had much experience with it. With the kids being that age, it will be the other parents who decide if she's welcome or not - their talking to/with each other and their kids about her when the little girl is not present (or, if they're particularly heartless, right in front of her). And it will be the child (and the other kids, really, as well) who will pay in spades for it. It won't be "happy time around the campfire roasting marshmallows" by any means. It doesn't work for kids of "different" ethnicities, religions, parental statuses, socioeconomic classes, political backgrounds - why in the world would you possibly think that a neurological disability would be treated any differently?

Look, having a crusading agenda is all well and fine, but be careful to examine who has to pay the price while you're crusading. There are always costs for any effort. Think about it for a moment - say someone "mandates" (for argument's sake) that the specific girl scout troop has to take her back (or take her at all, for that matter). Do you think she's just to walk in the door and all will be as if nothing happened? Hardly likely. They may have to let her sit there, but that's all they have to do, other than go through the motions. If the little girl in question is "with it" enough to catch the snippy comments, the shoving, the evil looks, the deliberate snubbing of the other kids and parents, which I'm willing to bet a fiver are going to happen, she's the one who's paying. Are you really cold enough to force that on the child, at that age, for your principles?

Philosophy and "what ought to be" is one thing, reality is not necessarily always in line with that. And if she's not "with it" enough to notice, I have to ask, why is she there? What purpose is served by her being in a group if she's not "really" in the group, but only physically present? Is there really one, and if so, is it for her or for her parents? [No, those are serious questions.]
Did her medical professionals recommend Girl Scouts, specificially, or is this just mum and dad wanting her to be in there with the other kids? There's a huge difference in reasoning there. If it's the former, and if mum and dad can't find a troop that'll take her, they may have to have he be a "lone scout" - you can still be a Girl Scout, earn the badges, do the exercises, etc., on your own. My daughter did that for several years, by choice, in between various troops. Or mum and dad may have to advertise for membership in a troop that THEY set up. There's nothing that should stop her parents from forming their own troop.

Yes, education is lovely. Yes, we should all get along. Yes, everyone should be "special" and welcomed with open arms. Yes, if we just try hard enough the world will be a lovely place. Please! You can change a little of it, perhaps, over time, but you can't do it instantaneously and you need to make sure of your purpose for trying before you go off on your crusade - and for the unintended consequences that will fall out while you're making your moves.

I'm not saying change isn't necessary. Just put some thought into it first. And remember that there are a lot of variables out there other than what you think "is right" or "ought to be", and that your views are not necessarily going to be welcomed with open arms.

Too bad for the child, now, really. She's becoming a media circus - I hope her family keeps her away from that.

Last edited by Nan on 27 Nov 2008, 11:54 am, edited 2 times in total.

I believe the story. Why? Because I know what this is like. I grew up in much the same way. This is nothing less than blatant discrimination.
The story says Magi was removed from the original troop because it had too many members and needed to downsize. She was moved to a troop with four physically disabled kids. She reacted for whatever reason and they did not want her to come back after.
My guess is she reacted the way she did because she didn't understand the differences. Maybe she didn't know how they related to her and this caused something like a traffic jam feeling of grid lock where all thoughts just jams together and it didn't make sense to her. I've had similar experiences trying to figure out NTs. It causes lots of anxiety.
I wonder if this would have happened if she stayed with the troop that downsized?

I was editing my last post as you were typing yours, so I'm sorry if there was confusion.

Do we know for sure that the first troop was oversized? If so, why was the little girl asked to leave and not someone else - especially if they knew that change was tough on her? Don't you find that just a little odd? Perhaps it's actually what happened. But....

Honey, really, you're not the only one who's come up against discrimination. It stings, and it sucks. But you need to know what you're fighting, and what it'll cost, before you go off on your quest. Go, by all means, but fight wisely. Because there's a whole lot more of "them" then there are of "you," although you are by no means alone.

Oh Puh-lease, we're human, not different creatures so that doesn't mean we can't have the same thoughts/opinions as "NTs." That's something I learned when I first came to the community when I was 17.

Actually... think about how difficult it is to be one of two scout leaders with say... 20 kids to control... and sometimes... around dangerous objects like campfires. A child needs to be willing and able to follow at least some rules for both their own safety and the safety of the unit.

That said, they could/should have asked one of the parents of the child to be with her at all times for safety. Perhaps they did... the story doesn't say.

I can't believe that they'd kick someone out without warning or discussion.

This is by far the best post I've ever read on these forums. Very practical and realistic take.....Thanks.