'Girls don't want men who aren't confident' = 'Girls don't..

Page 2 of 2 [ 29 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

sinsboldly
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Gender: Female
Posts: 15,283
Location: Bandon-by-the-Sea, Oregon

27 Nov 2008, 2:27 pm

yesplease wrote:
sinsboldly wrote:
show me a man that can hold down a job and a mortgage and I will show you a hero most women would go for.
Why a mortgage? Isn't there some other metric for gaging reliability that doesn't require the individual in question to loose a bunch of capital through interest? :?: :?: :?:


the mortgage (which is simply a symbol in this case) is so the kids can be raised in a solid home with roots and as much security as is possible in the wayword world. Why would any woman consider having children for and by a man with anything else? And why would a man want to have a family with out being able to provide for them?

Merle


_________________
Alis volat propriis
State Motto of Oregon


ManErg
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 Apr 2006
Age: 58
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,249
Location: No Mans Land

27 Nov 2008, 3:25 pm

sinsboldly wrote:
the mortgage (which is simply a symbol in this case) is so the kids can be raised in a solid home with roots and as much security as is possible in the wayword world. Why would any woman consider having children for and by a man with anything else? And why would a man want to have a family with out being able to provide for them?


It really saddens me to read that. Speaking as someone who has worked very hard to keep a home and family. Not just keep them, but give them a standard of living way above average. And now going through a divorce. Security and comfort mean nothing without the 'personality' the typical NT women seeks in a partner.

What saddens me, Merle, is that I would have agreed with you a few years ago. But now it sounds *so* misguided. I put so much effort into the things you say here, and in the end I know it all amounts to nothing. Most (but not all) women want a man with looks and personality, regardless of what lies underneath. You never see sociopaths, liers, cheats and violent criminals on 'what do women want' forums anywhere. The question never enters their minds because it is easy for them to find a women who finds them attractive.

For young people, nobody has a career and mortgage anyway, so they cannot be important. In fact it's more important to be exercising freedom and avoiding those millstones round your neck. And then, around 35-ish, just about every man who wants one will have a job and a mortgage, at least in the western world. I don't see job and house as being grounds for attraction until it gets to "business tycoon with mansion" level.


_________________
Circular logic is correct because it is.


sinsboldly
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Gender: Female
Posts: 15,283
Location: Bandon-by-the-Sea, Oregon

27 Nov 2008, 3:39 pm

ManErg wrote:
sinsboldly wrote:
the mortgage (which is simply a symbol in this case) is so the kids can be raised in a solid home with roots and as much security as is possible in the wayword world. Why would any woman consider having children for and by a man with anything else? And why would a man want to have a family with out being able to provide for them?


ManErg wrote:
It really saddens me to read that. Speaking as someone who has worked very hard to keep a home and family. Not just keep them, but give them a standard of living way above average. And now going through a divorce. Security and comfort mean nothingwithout the 'personality' the typical NT women seeks in a partner.


but she got what she wanted at the time, ManErg. Now she has changed her criteria is all.

ManErg wrote:
What saddens me, Merle, is that I would have agreed with you a few years ago. But now it sounds *so* misguided. I put so much effort into the things you say here, and in the end I know it all amounts to nothing. Most (but not all) women want a man with looks and personality, regardless of what lies underneath. You never see sociopaths, liers, cheats and violent criminals on 'what do women want' forums anywhere. The question never enters their minds because it is easy for them to find a women who finds them attractive.

For young people, nobody has a career and mortgage anyway, so they cannot be important. In fact it's more important to be exercising freedom and avoiding those millstones round your neck. And then, around 35-ish, just about every man who wants one will have a job and a mortgage, at least in the western world. I don't see job and house as being grounds for attraction until it gets to "business tycoon with mansion" level.


As I completly sympathize with your situation ( I have been married three times myself, one died in VietNam, one separtated and died in the Loma Preita earthquake, and one I can't even talk about yet) I do know that when I went to college men attracted women by their POTENTIAL. I would go into the library and there would be men, with their studies spread out infront of them, and the young women would 'browse through the study room to see someone that caught their fancy, sit down and begin to make conversation based on this mating ritual.

Having one mate as a 'starter wife/husband' is a much later phenomonom, because the whole idea of one mate for life is for a long gone agricultural society, not for the current mercantile/managerial model.

I am glad you brought up the concept that what attracts women in one phase of a man's life changes over the years. So many men thing that that they are done if they finally get a woman to make their 'I do' s.

Merle


_________________
Alis volat propriis
State Motto of Oregon


makuranososhi
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 May 2008
Age: 42
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,717
Location: Banned by Alex

27 Nov 2008, 3:55 pm

It is folly to think that that the wooing ceases and the pursuit abruptly ended once vows we do make... for love, once found, must be kept lest it die away.

My beloved and I are fortunate... we've known each other for eight years, and have changed greatly - and find we suit each other even better with age.


M.


_________________
My thanks to all the wonderful members here; I will miss the opportunity to continue to learn and work with you.

For those who seek an alternative, it is coming.

So long, and thanks for all the fish!


ManErg
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 Apr 2006
Age: 58
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,249
Location: No Mans Land

27 Nov 2008, 5:01 pm

sinsboldly wrote:
So many men thing that that they are done if they finally get a woman to make their 'I do' s.


Very true!

I think the aim if of this thread, and most every other one in this forum, is actually attracting someone in the first place. Not that that can be separated from the effort of staying with someone, actually. There are so many aspies here (myself incuded, although AS wasn't around at the time) who are ignored and rejected for so many years, it is almost inevitable we lose all sense of perspective when we finally get accepted.

And naturally, we think the job is done, as you say above. After all, it took so much more sheer effort than everybody else to get the relationship started in the first place, surely we deserve to be able ease off and finally be ourselves now? However, the word 'deserve' is not in life's vocabulary.

Not just aspies, to be fair. You hear so often people say, about both men and women, how they totally change after getting married, or even after a few months. Again, inevitable, as we are all on our absolute best behaviour to get things started, to get attention, to shine out as the special person we know we are, that we become a total fake. And a huge amount of the confidence on display is fake bravado. Many superficially confident men hide deep insecurities. And the other way around too. Some who may appear lacking confidence on the surface have deeper reserves that get called on perhaps in crises when everybody else is losing it.


_________________
Circular logic is correct because it is.


makuranososhi
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 May 2008
Age: 42
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,717
Location: Banned by Alex

27 Nov 2008, 5:06 pm

Another thought - that may provide one of the challenges for those on the spectrum in long term relationships, is the different paces of change each undergoes. I know that many who knew me even in adolescence comment on how little I have changed, how consistent my mannerisms and quirks remain while still having evolved some.


M.


_________________
My thanks to all the wonderful members here; I will miss the opportunity to continue to learn and work with you.

For those who seek an alternative, it is coming.

So long, and thanks for all the fish!


sinsboldly
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Gender: Female
Posts: 15,283
Location: Bandon-by-the-Sea, Oregon

27 Nov 2008, 7:20 pm

ManErg wrote:
sinsboldly wrote:
So many men thing that that they are done if they finally get a woman to make their 'I do' s.


Very true!

I think the aim if of this thread, and most every other one in this forum, is actually attracting someone in the first place. Not that that can be separated from the effort of staying with someone, actually. There are so many aspies here (myself incuded, although AS wasn't around at the time) who are ignored and rejected for so many years, it is almost inevitable we lose all sense of perspective when we finally get accepted.

And naturally, we think the job is done, as you say above. After all, it took so much more sheer effort than everybody else to get the relationship started in the first place, surely we deserve to be able ease off and finally be ourselves now? However, the word 'deserve' is not in life's vocabulary.

Not just aspies, to be fair. You hear so often people say, about both men and women, how they totally change after getting married, or even after a few months. Again, inevitable, as we are all on our absolute best behaviour to get things started, to get attention, to shine out as the special person we know we are, that we become a total fake. And a huge amount of the confidence on display is fake bravado. Many superficially confident men hide deep insecurities. And the other way around too. Some who may appear lacking confidence on the surface have deeper reserves that get called on perhaps in crises when everybody else is losing it.


It is not so much that we become a total fake as that the 'best foot forward' persona we develop it untentable to retain over a extended amount of time and stress. We don't 'change' so much as we can't manage to keep up the 'best foot forward' attitude.

I love a man that can plumb his deeper reserves in crisis.

Merle


_________________
Alis volat propriis
State Motto of Oregon


yesplease
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 28 Dec 2006
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 554

28 Nov 2008, 4:26 am

BigK wrote:
yesplease wrote:
sinsboldly wrote:
show me a man that can hold down a job and a mortgage and I will show you a hero most women would go for.
Why a mortgage? Isn't there some other metric for gaging reliability that doesn't require the individual in question to loose a bunch of capital through interest? :?: :?: :?:
I suppose being able to buy a house with cash would help :)
Zactly! Over a thirty year fixed rate loan assuming an individual pays on time they end up paying twice as much as someone who saves up enough and buys outright. Iono about others, but I'd rather save up nearly all of my income and live frugally w/ friends or relatives in order to buy outright than have to work twice as much for the same thing.

Course, there seem to be advantages such as being able to deduct the interest from taxes via the 1040 long form, at least in the states. I suppose in that case it may be a good idea to have enough to buy the house outright, but get a loan large enough to offset taxes (including the income from the CD mentioned later) through interest paid, and stick the rest in a CD so the owner would minimize taxes paid while making money off of the CD, which would also serve as a backup in case something catastrophic happened and the house was not covered or not completely covered by insurance so the owner could still walk away w/ some capital if they were really unlucky. In other words we could minimize risk by keeping a fair bit of our capital liquid while also minimizing the cost of the interest we would pay on the loan.



ouinon
Supporting Member
Supporting Member

User avatar

Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Age: 56
Gender: Female
Posts: 6,455
Location: Europe

28 Nov 2008, 6:53 am

ManErg wrote:
Some who may appear lacking confidence on the surface have deeper reserves that get called on perhaps in crises when everybody else is losing it.

Took me a long time to work that one out. Missing out on a couple of the best people around in the process.

I think AS women may almost be more prone to getting it "wrong" than NT women, because we take the social signals so literally, can't easily read the real person behind the impressiveness, and, if they are anything like me, are pretending so hard to be like "a real woman"/other women, or trying to, that don't hear internal warning bells until it's too late.

I think a lot of AS men take time to "grow on one", and in today's society there often simply isn't the time and stability for that to happen. Which is a great shame.
.



Aspie_Chav
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Feb 2006
Age: 46
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,060
Location: Croydon

28 Nov 2008, 9:45 am

ouinon wrote:
KenM wrote:
I'm 40, hold a good job and a morgage and all that. But still single.

I seem to remember that you have posted about severe depression in the past, and I think that probably doesn't create the impression of security. Perhaps now that you are coming up again a bit things will change.
.


Many lonely people are very good at hiding the depression. I am borderline sucidel but I have to pretend that I am as at least has happy has veryone else.



MissConstrue
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 Feb 2008
Gender: Female
Posts: 19,810
Location: Earth

28 Nov 2008, 9:47 am

alex wrote:
TheMidnightJudge wrote:
What does drunkenness have to do with anything?

Confidence is certainly something attractive to girls.


they don't call it liquid courage for nothing!!


Which is something I used in the dating world and it worked for a while. Now I don't drink b/c it caused more problems in other areas of my life. So now I don't date cos guys don't like girls without confidence. It's ashame I don't whine about it too much on this forum like guys do.


_________________
I live as I choose or I will not live at all.
~Delores O’Riordan


Cyberman
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 24 Apr 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,262
Location: hibernating

28 Nov 2008, 6:39 pm

MissConstrue wrote:
So now I don't date cos guys don't like girls without confidence. It's ashame I don't whine about it too much on this forum like guys do.

Maybe you should "whine" about it more often. We have the right to do so, and so do you. We're all entitled to our own opinions, whether we agree or not.



yesplease
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 28 Dec 2006
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 554

28 Nov 2008, 9:35 pm

sinsboldly wrote:
the mortgage (which is simply a symbol in this case) is so the kids can be raised in a solid home with roots and as much security as is possible in the wayword world. Why would any woman consider having children for and by a man with anything else? And why would a man want to have a family with out being able to provide for them?
OIC. In this case I would agree that a couple having children should both be able to provide for them, in whatever way they choose to, depending of course on availability.



ManErg
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 Apr 2006
Age: 58
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,249
Location: No Mans Land

02 Dec 2008, 10:22 am

ouinon wrote:
I think a lot of AS men take time to "grow on one", and in today's society there often simply isn't the time and stability for that to happen..


Maybe something in that! Quite often I've been told something like "I wasn't sure about you at first, but you're actually really interesting!" This would take *months* after meeting that person, or working with them, whatever.

I guess it's that I used to suffer badly with getting verbally paralysed when meeting people. So worried about getting it wrong (again!) that I came across as a complete nonentity. (which is worse than being an incomplete nonentity, honest).


_________________
Circular logic is correct because it is.