Asperger's Versus APD

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I have never been diagnosed with any ‘mental disorder’ except by random layman either trying to be helpful or mean. I can definitely relate to the ‘symptoms’ of Asperger’s and it seems to provide an explanation for the ups and downs that are my life. I am not currently in a position to seek a professional diagnosis even if I wanted to, hence my asking this particular question of you. Upon first reading of Asperger’s it seems an appropriate description of myself and likewise when I read of Avoidant Personality Disorder. It seems, upon thinking about it, that APD could possibly be an outward manifestation of Asperger’s, or a result. I read the comment of a layman at another discussion board that Aspie’s do develop APD. Do any of you have any additional information on the possible relationship between APD and Asperger’s? Perhaps the reason I am interested in this issue is that I reflect a lot on my experiences and can be very harsh in assessing myself in reagards to my many failures. Just when I begin to feel comfortable with the possibility that I may have Asperger’s and that this might expain a great deal about myself, I then begin to think, “But I could have just gathered up my social courage and at least tried, and am now simply making excuses for myself with self-diagnosis…” I cut and pasted the following, perhaps more for myself, if anyone needs it as a quick reference.
Avoidant Personality Disorder
The American Psychiatric Association's DSM-IV-TR, a widely used manual for diagnosing mental disorders, defines avoidant personality disorder as a "pervasive pattern of social inhibition, feelings of inadequacy, and hypersensitivity to negative evaluation, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by four (or more) of the following:
1. Avoids occupational activities that involve significant interpersonal contact, because of fears of criticism, disapproval, or rejection
2. Is unwilling to get involved with people unless certain of being liked
3. Shows restraint initiating intimate relationships because of the fear of being ashamed, ridiculed, or rejected due to severe low self-worth.
4. Is preoccupied with being criticized or rejected in social situations
5. Is inhibited in new interpersonal situations because of feelings of inadequacy
6. Views self as socially inept, personally unappealing, or inferior to others
7. Is unusually reluctant to take personal risks or to engage in any new activities because they may prove embarrassing
Asperger’s
A pervasive developmental disorder, Asperger syndrome is distinguished by a pattern of symptoms rather than a single symptom. It is characterized by qualitative impairment in social interaction, by stereotyped and restricted patterns of behavior, activities and interests, and by no clinically significant delay in cognitive development or general delay in language. Intense preoccupation with a narrow subject, one-sided verbosity, restricted prosody, and physical clumsiness are typical of the condition, but are not required for diagnosis.

You can do quite a lot of research and self diagnosis on your own for things like this, even if they seem confusing. One thing tho is that if you use the clinical diagnostic profiles in disorders defined in reference books like the American Psychiatric Association's DSM-IV you will find a section that contains "differential diagnosis" (or something like that). That section contains a paragraph or so explaining how a diagnosis of that particular disorder is differentiated from a diagnosis of another one that closely resembles it. If you were to go look up a DSM-IV entry on "avoidant personality disorder" you might find something that explains how a diagnosis of APD is different from a diagnosis of Asperger Syndrome.

I haven't looked it up so I don't know that there are differential diagnosis entries that explain how APD is different from Asperger syndrome. But if they did have those entries, you would probably find something like your comment that people with Asperger Syndrome tend to develop symptoms resembling APD. But then you would probably also find comments that say that there are other symptoms of autism that aren't found in APD, like sensory disruptions, cognitive traits like developing special focused interests, atypical motor function, disorientation when navigating and keeping a schedule, difficulty dealing emotionally with changes, and so on. There are many symptoms of Asperger Syndrome that, taken as a whole, should make it clear if the symptoms of avoidant personality disorder are separate and distinct from autism.

I can see how someone who had As could eventually develop APD but...

When I was a kid I avoided peers because most of them were not interested in the same things I was and their interests bored me and I had more fun doing my interests. I was actually oblivious to what any one thought of me except my parents who I believed hated me and I don't think I was being hyper sensitive to their criticism....it was constant and most of the time didn't make sense to me . By the time I was in Jr High, I did have a low self esteem in some ways...I thought I was a hideous monster and I think would have been Dxed with body dysmorphic disorder if anyone had know what I thought of myself . But I didn't totally avoid them I just was self conscious that they had to look at someone so hideous . By High school I had finally become aware that people didn't seem to want to be around me...that's when I began drinking so that I could stand to be around people and block those thoughts out....I was constantly analyzing every little detail of social interactions to try and figure out what was going on ....very frustrating .

I'm just mentioning the details because I personally believe that just looking at someones behavior and saying that they are "avoiding social situations" is superficial analysis of the situation . The importance is the internal and neurological causes of the avoidance . Someone with APD is "self centered", just like someone with AS but there are other reasons that many people with AS may find being in social situations painful and confusing that do not effect someone with APD.

Sensory issues....people talking to loud, to fast, to soft, to much slang

Auditory processing disorder...Most social situations take place with a lot of back ground noise

Non-verbal Learning disability...I think it is something like 80% of human communication...if your missing it, it can be confusing and embarrassing

Face blindness and memory issues can also be pretty embarrassing in social situations

Pedantic Speech can lead to people thinking your "stuck up and pretentious"...not a fun label

Obsessive interests can make it difficult to carry on a to way conversation and make people ignore you

Avoiding eye contact or having the "wrong" facial expressions can piss people off


It's true that none of these things are actually part of the DX of AS "right now" but they are common enough among people with AS that they do weigh into the diagnosis as a whole picture and they go along way into explaining the "why" behind the social avoidance. Low self esteem is only one of the problems and mostly comes from being treated as "defective " over a number of years .

I believe that APD could be chemical and psychological but AS is neurological .

Your analysis above is good. Where you point out that APD is probably chemical and psychological but AS is neurological, for example. Where AS people would develop APD, they would do so because of psychological trauma or conditioning after a long time of social interaction problems. But, on top of that, there are symptoms in the symptom list of APD that generally fall in the category of AS symptoms because both affect social behavior in some similar ways (i.e. whether or not APD is present in the AS person).

Remember that personality has a genetic origin. So the tendency to become Avoidant could be inherited, just like Asperger's is, and make it a lot more likely. How genetic personality is expressed does change depending on what your environment is like and what you work towards; but those tendencies are going to be there--an Aspie who doesn't have a lick of Avoidant tendency in his DNA will probably not become Avoidant, though he may end up with some other problem.

I don't know about personality being entirely genetic...
I think environment plays a huge part in formation of the personality. If personality is entirely genetic, why is it no one under the age of 18 can be diagnosed with a personality disorder?
Someone who is naturally quiet and introspective can be "programmed" (for lack of better terminology) to be more extroverted, confrontational and outgoing with the right training.
Same with the person who is naturally extroverted (like I was). Due to negative experiences, overreactions, punishments that might have been too severe, and various erroneous misunderstandings throughout childhood, my extroverted nature became more avoidant and introverted. I began to experience anxiety I hadn't known before and strange phobias concerning people, ie, seeing the same person twice, etc. It certainly was not genetic. In fact, my personality did a total 180.
Supposedly, the personality takes the entire childhood to form.
Can a person with AS also have an Avoidant Personality Disorder comorbid? Most certainly so!
Access to services in childhood and treatment for AS can intervene in the development of a personality disorder.

these things can be co-morbid. it is really a good idea to get this stuff checked out if you have any doubts. I have been dxed with all sorts of things in the past - as have many others with AS who are older. I actually went to an AS specialist (when i got my dx,) who was also familiar with things like APD, BPD and MPD which had been thrown at me when i was younger. It was good to get clarity and it was good to get the piece of mind that comes with correct dx. IT was also good to speak with someone well versed in ASD who was also familiar withe these other PD's. IT was very, very important for me to get that clarity so i could really move forward and start refining and living my life in a productive and meaningful way.

I think that someone under 18 can be diagnosed if the symptoms are present for at least one year.

And I suppose that nobody is saying that personality is entirely genetic.

In my case, I really was indeed much less introverted in elementary school than in high school - some environmental factor should had some impact.