If you are not sure if you have Aspergers or not, explain.

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It does seem like many make out the whole NT/ASD delineation to be a whole lot more absolute than it probably is. Many seem to conveniently forget that having an ASD doesn't necessarily make you a saint, or immune to being just as conceited, self-absorbed and thoughtless as you might accuse others of being. Granted, the world is an unforgiving place for anyone who's at any kind of pervasive disadvantage, but you shouldn't generallize/blame people because of hurt feelings. That ain't right, or very constructive.

I'm afraid I still meet most of the criteria. I've practiced eye contact, and that has helped. But I still have zero desire to socialize. I find it exhausting. I've asked for DX, but was told since I'm the age I am that I'd have to pay for it. So who needs a piece of paper stating what I already know?

yeah I have the digits too, and although it's not a diagnostic criterium I've been comparing my digits with those of other people and it seems to be very rare to have them this way

I tend to count the digit ratio thing as evidence that I am developed somewhat differently from the norm...even though i know there is sketchyness to the notion...there seems to be something to it..

what is the digit ratio thing, i don't think i've heard of it before?

First off, I'm posting this for myself, and definitely don't expect anyone to read it. It's very long. But this is a good question.

I have changed dramatically from when I was a child, and how I behaved then, to now.
Certain residual behaviors remain.
A lot of the things I did, as a child, fit the classic AS profile, but were probably missed or confused because
1) I was an only child, and was not subjected to other children until elementary school, except for brief, traumatic nursery school experiences, and by that time, any "oddness" was explained away by the fact that I didn't have much exposure to other children.
2) My father was much older than the average father, my mother somewhat older than the average mother, and they did not have any experience with children, being somewhat "odd" themselves (not gonna go into detail here, but my parents did not have any friends as I was growing up). Looking back, it turns out that they were very strict and restrictive toward me, something I didn't notice until I was a teenager; Hyperfocus and narrow interests were rewarded. My parents wanted me to be a concert pianist and pushed me to do so at an early age. Until I reached my teenage years, and we realized I had tiny hands.
3) My parents had my IQ tested at an early age (4) and were pleased with the results. They gave me latitude in my behavior, as long as it wasn't "pop culture" behavior. As long as they associated the things I did with "intelligence", they let me do what I wanted. They were not concerned with social deficits, as long as I could play the piano brilliantly and read at a level higher than my grade.
4) It has been brought to my attention (by educators) that my own son is having social and communication difficulties at school. (I've noticed it at home, too, but not to the same degree). He's in the process of being evaluated/diagnosed. My parents still don't notice a thing, they just call him "brilliant".
5) Any lack of reciprocity, etc, toward my parents, would have likely been seen as a lack of "respect" and I would have been punished for it. I was yelled at, and punished a lot.

***************
With that said....

DSM Criteria
A.
1. eye contact etc. As a child, found it difficult, still do. I remember being yelled at by teachers because they thought I was being "snobby" or arrogant, for this reason. I have forced myself to learn how to do it to get by.
2. Peer relationships. Yeah, it's hard for me to make friends. A lot of the time people don't like me and I have no idea why. I don't think I always pay attention to, or understand the messages I'm sending. As a kid, I was shunned and bullied, constantly. I have developed meaningful, significant relationships, but they are few and far between, and require certain personality characteristics from the other person.
3. Spontaneous sharing. Sort of. For the longest time, I never initiated conversation with anyone, and only after failing in social circumstances over and over due to this one thing, I had to train myself to do it.
4. Reciprocity. I have lacked natural initiative, but I don't think I have ever lacked reciprocity.

B.
1. restricted patterns of interest. Oh, yeah. I get obsessively interested in one thing, and have done so for as long as I can remember.
2. adherence to routine. I think I do this, but...very mildly. My rituals are comforting, but flexible. I only get "trapped" in them if I can't think of anything else interesting to do, i.e. it's worse when I lack inspiration.
3. Motor mannerisms/stimming, etc.. Do it, but mild. After much retraining by my mother, I only do it really when no one is around.
4. parts of objects. No, not really.

C.
Yeah, worse as a kid, less so now. Social, more than anything, but I usually have some sort of occupational conflict, socially, given enough time. For this reason, I try to excel at what I do so I get promoted and/or make frequent lateral moves so it doesn't happen. I also tend to be a perfectionist, so that I can avoid constructive criticism from my boss.
I function okay, just not in the "normal" way....

D.
Nope, early talker. Did have to go to speech therapy in elementary school, people couldn't understand me.

E.
Nope

F.
Nope

E.
Nope

Last edited by patternist on 01 Dec 2008, 2:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

it's a scientific fact that most people on the spectrum have an abnormally low 2nd to 4th digit ratio. basically, their ring fingers are longer than their index fingers.

from what I've observed it's very rare among women, at least I haven't seen it in any of the female hands I've inspected since I heard about this ;p

try googling it, there's been a lot of reseach done on this.

edit- Developmental Medicine and Child Neurology,
2001, 43, 160-164.

lol yes i'm the 1st known unsure aspie rapper. didn't even notice

lol yes i'm the 1st known unsure aspie rapper. didn't even notice

Qualitative impairment in social interaction, as manifested by at least two of the following:
(1) marked impairment in the use of multiple nonverbal behaviors such as eye-to-eye gaze, facial expression, body postures, and gestures to regulate social interaction
Yeah, pretty much. In hindsight I realize a lot of what things mean, or a still picture is fine. But not in real-time, unless it's not subtle at all.
(2) failure to develop peer relationships appropriate to developmental level
DEFINITELY. I really got left behind. Nothing remotely resembling romantic relationships ever, I hardly even keep in touch with family, etc. The only way I get close (or at least familiar) with someone is to have it facillitated by living arrangements or work.
(3) a lack of spontaneous seeking to share enjoyment, interests, or achievements with other people (e.g., by a lack of showing, bringing, or pointing out objects of interest to other people)
Yes. I don't "go out and do things" with people. I do my Hwa Rang, but that's tri-weekly and not spontaneous.
(4) lack of social or emotional reciprocity
That's me. Apparently I quite often hurt peoples' feelings.

B. Restricted repetitive and stereotyped patterns of behavior, interests, and activities, as manifested by at least one of the following:
(1) encompassing preoccupation with one or more stereotyped and restricted patterns of interest that is abnormal either in intensity or focus
Yes. Gaming, Hwa Rang, and the occasional "smaller" interests like 3d puzzles or certain categorized wikis. That's what I do when I'm not eating sleeping or working.
(2) apparently inflexible adherence to specific, nonfunctional routines or rituals
Not totally inflexible, but unusually so.
(3) stereotyped and repetitive motor mannerisms (e.g., hand or finger flapping or twisting, or complex whole-body movements)
Not so much. I became self-conscious of things like foot-shaking because my dad and sister always do it. You could say I drum fingers. If I'm feeling really anxious, these things can help, though, and help me avoid involuntary clumsiness or twitching/shaking. I have the "odd gait" and posture.
(4) persistent preoccupation with parts of objects
I like 3d puzzles like my Gordian Knot, which I've completely memorized how to disassemble and re-assemble. (It's elaborate enough that people think I'm crazy when I show off) I always looked at things like pliars or nuts and bolts and imagined the pieces moving independently and together. I have a persistent interest in Transformers.

C. The disturbance causes clinically significant impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning.
It does.
D. There is no clinically significant general delay in language (e.g., single words used by age 2 years, communicative phrases used by age 3 years).
Yes.

E. There is no clinically significant delay in cognitive development or in the development of age-appropriate self-help skills, adaptive behavior (other than in social interaction), and curiosity about the environment in childhood.
Maybe there was some... I was late to learn shoe-tying, (elementary) late to learn bike-riding, (age 13) and I've had more than a few occupational difficulties.
F. Criteria are not met for another specific Pervasive Developmental Disorder or Schizophrenia.
I'm not 100% on that, but I'm functional enough for abject independence. Not "successful" by my own standards, though.

[Sorry, double post]

Last edited by Greyhound on 01 Dec 2008, 2:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

About the finger ratio thing, this looks interesting, although I haven't read it all at the time of posting:
http://www.viewzone.com/fingers.html

I have a low, male ratio. I didn't know women's hands tended to be so different from mine.

I don't know how much stock to put into the finger-length thing. However... give or take a mm between them, my indexes are 10.5 cm, and my ring-fingers are at or a bit further than 11 cm. Curling the knuckles straight out at a 90, I can see the ringies are noticably longer. And/or skinnier.

Hmmm. Now that you point it out, my rings are longer than indexs too.

Never noticed that before now.

that's another one apart from the digit ratio. I have pretty crooked fingers and toes but that's rather common.

my ears are perfectly symmetrical though

and here i agree with NT.

I'm dubious about fitting in with any community...ratbags and angels are everywhere. and besides, i actually like being an albatross....stopping off at this ship for a while and then flying off to the next. tailing and trailing or flying ahead...but always just a little apart from the communal group. Something about proximity irks me - whether in an aspie or NT community. and gee, the longer i go on, the more i find those terms facile.

My dx is for me. it explains a lot and has been a relief. but that doesn't actually mean i want to attend the next World Aspie Convention. no offence to anyone - it's just my way of wanting and choosing to live. and i don;t want my identity to be purely based on my Aspergers. it is a component and not the whole.