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ToadOfSteel
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17 Dec 2008, 5:02 pm

msinglynx wrote:
I think if I could get him out of the gallery I can be more real (?),or at least, more ME with him, though the few times I've gotten really casual & comfortable enough to be more my usual self he seemed pleased. At the same time he also seems very careful (?) like not touching me (I've mentioned to him I dislike being touched by strangers) but even when we are standing next to each other, he holds himself carefully to not touch me, not even a casual touch on the shoulder, etc. I don't know if that is him being careful of like sexual harrasment, or respectful of my boundaries or what. He seems very respectful of boundaries, like being careful with his words when talking about race & trying to warn me when the detention center kids come that they are going to wanna talk about boobs (some nudes for a recent show), etc. He is FREAKISHLY polite. But that is almost worse, becuz he may not say "no" to not be mean, if that makes any sense.


If you've mentioned that you don't like to be touched, he may be taking that a little more seriously than you might think. If there was a way to tell him that you would be comfortable for him to occasionally make some kind of contact with you, that would be a bit easier on him. As for the sexual harassment line, that is something men really have to worry about in the workplace. All a man has to do is look at a woman the wrong way and he could find himself tied up in litigation for years...

Trying to get with him when he's not on the job would probably be a good idea, since then he doesn't have to worry about maintaining professionalism as much...



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19 Dec 2008, 12:25 pm

I'm going to go contrary to a lot of the posts here, and recommend you not do anything or try for the relationship.

My reasons:

A) He's a coworker, and if things don't work out, or if he's not interested, it's going to be weird, and one of you will probably leave eventually. It's never a great idea to get involved from someone from work. Make an effort to meet other people who aren't a "captive audience" (forced by circumstances and income to be around you, but not there voluntarily necessarily).

B) Honestly, he sounds gay. Cutie-pie to another guy? Not straight. I'm a straight guy, but I've lived with a gay guy and had a lot of gay friends (and straight ones), and he does not sound straight. A lot of straight women love and feel attracted to gay guys because they are well-groomed, polite/well-mannered in a way that is almost feminine (and for a good reason), and have no ulterior motives, which is why they are so easy to talk to. It's the same reason why straight guys often end up with girls they don't like chasing them -- all of the sneaky scheming goes out the window, and we just end up talking to them as a friend. Gay guys also get into that "girl chat" mode with straight girls, which is why they often make such great platonic friends (but nothing more). I'd also like to point out that if he does have gay sex (say, if he's bi or slightly bi), he probably is at a slightly higher risk for a serious STD (no offense to any gay men here, but this is true), so even a fling can be more risky than maybe you anticipate.

There are a lot of other fish in the sea, and it feels like you are trying to make this happen when really it shouldn't. If he at least hung out with you a lot outside of work, different story, but you invited him and he turned it down politely. The message is clear -- "I like you as a work friend, but not as anything else." It hurts, but as a woman, you have a lot easier time of finding someone than a single guy does in the same situation.



msinglynx
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20 Dec 2008, 5:57 pm

billsmithglendale wrote:
I'm going to go contrary to a lot of the posts here, and recommend you not do anything or try for the relationship.

My reasons:

A) He's a coworker Make an effort to meet other people who aren't a "captive audience" (forced by circumstances and income to be around you, but not there voluntarily necessarily).

B) Honestly, he sounds gay. Cutie-pie to another guy? Not straight. I'm a straight guy, but I've lived with a gay guy and had a lot of gay friends (and straight ones), and he does not sound straight. A lot of straight women love and feel attracted to gay guys because they are well-groomed, polite/well-mannered in a way that is almost feminine (and for a good reason), and have no ulterior motives, which is why they are so easy to talk to. It's the same reason why straight guys often end up with girls they don't like chasing them -- all of the sneaky scheming goes out the window, and we just end up talking to them as a friend. Gay guys also get into that "girl chat" mode with straight girls, which is why they often make such great platonic friends (but nothing more). I'd also like to point out that if he does have gay sex (say, if he's bi or slightly bi), he probably is at a slightly higher risk for a serious STD (no offense to any gay men here, but this is true), so even a fling can be more risky than maybe you anticipate.


Ah this is the kind of response I wanted.
ok, now I may just be making excuses or rationalizing, I'm not sure but

A) He is NOT as of yet a coworker. I volunteer & frequently, but often enough I dont have plans to go by & he asks me to (so maybe I am just reliable, since I have no social life :D), & when I do go I do not pursue or otherwise leave my area to talk to him, on the contrary he comes down to find me, offers me snacks or gum, etc. which SEEMS like an excuse to talk to me. Same thing with the events & parties. There is no reason he shoud be standing next to me in the quietest most isolated corner I can find, when guys & girls seem to be falling all over themselves to flirt with him, we have interesting conversation but the whole gallery scene is full of brilliant, talented, articulate people he could be talking to. Also it was his idea and with his invitation/instigation that I applied for a regular job at the gallery.

B) Honestly I am a complete disaster at relationships. I am bisexual myself, so I wouldn't mind that & honestly I think I've been in more danger of catching STD's from strait guys who realize how easy I am to manipulate & lie to. I think maybe I like him so much becuz he seems like such an honest straitforward person (as well as maybe a sense of gratitud for his obvious belief in my competence, which not many people seem to have faith in). The thing is, he is not feminine at all, in no respects. I have a lot of gay and bi friends and I can usually tell (maybe a little later than some people) but with him, he seems almost more Asexual than anything else. And he definitely dos not indulge in "girl talk". I have not ever had such interesting conversations about racism, art, politics, etc. & most people do not give me such a chance to express mysef or listen as patiently or carefully to what I am trying to say (not necesarilly what I do say). My friends told me to just ask him bluntly if he was gay & if he says yes to just smile & tell him I find him attractive, since gay guys usually find that a compliment & if he says he's strait to just grin and make a joke about how he is too hot to be strait.

I dont know about him rejecting my invite, it's as likely he was busy since he does has a full schedule but he has also offered to introduce me to people in power in my areas of interest (which obviously intales going to where they are) & once when I asked him about dancing (yeah, he dances, I know it's even gayer, he does modern, tango, etc.) I got the impression that he was feeling me out to see if I would be interested in going with him, but I wasn't sure what was going on so I kinda started to ignore him and talked to his coworker and he got kind of... annoyed-seeming. He is having some kind of surgery on his knee during vacation but I told him he had to come dancing with me when he was better. He seemed happy about it, he smiled anyway, even tho he said it would be a few monthes before he was good and twisty, but thats not really a no, right?

Also there's been a couple of things beside, like I dropped my CD player & he offered to give me one of his & I was so shocked I just stared at him & he got all... agitated? Like anxious, or nervous, cuz he started talking really fast and kind of louder, telling me that he didnt have it on him, but it was at home, but he would bring it, etc. But that wasn't the first time he's gotten like that. I sometimes have to wear a name tag for events, and mine only had my first last name, and I have 2, which is a big deal for me to use them both for cultural reasons, but I'm not obnoxious about it, I dont think, and also it was mispelled (mexican spelling, not caribbean), so he was going to fix it for me. The name tag was not a big deal for me, and I did not say anything about the mispelling, he noticed it and offered to fix it & I just kind of laughed and looked at him, and he got the same kind of flustered, going on about how he would fix it and make sure I had a perfect name tag, etc. So, when I was going home I forgot to take it off and I had my jacket on and he asked me for it, so I kinda unzipped it, but I was still looking at him cuz he was telling me something, and I thought I would try to look him in the eye for once & I did that while I unzipped and reached for the tag and all of a sudden I felt like, as if I were getting naked and really intense and it was just wierd and he kinda, I think his eyes got bigger and he seemed to change colors and he turned away really fast & changed the subject. But that moment felt really wierd and kind of important.



patientsortoffire
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20 Dec 2008, 8:26 pm

Do you two ever drink? Just ask him out for a beer after work. If that's not your thing, then invite him to hang out doing something. Anything. I'm sure if you two are pals enough, then there's gotta be some kind of common interest you can find. Keep it friendly, and let it happen if it happens.

If he's gay, then you got a gay friend.



msinglynx
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22 Dec 2008, 3:52 pm

patientsortoffire wrote:
Do you two ever drink? Just ask him out for a beer after work. If that's not your thing, then invite him to hang out doing something. Anything. I'm sure if you two are pals enough, then there's gotta be some kind of common interest you can find. Keep it friendly, and let it happen if it happens.

If he's gay, then you got a gay friend.


I invited him to go dancing when he gets back from vacation and heals from surgery. But actually that seems like a good idea cuz I know he drinks... I actually hadn't thought of that (duh moment)....
thanks.



patientsortoffire
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22 Dec 2008, 5:59 pm

"Alcohol. The cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems." - Homer Jay Simpson



msinglynx
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22 Dec 2008, 6:01 pm

patientsortoffire wrote:
"Alcohol. The cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems." - Homer Jay Simpson


LMFAO
I can dig it hehehe



billsmithglendale
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22 Dec 2008, 6:58 pm

If he's going to be rehabbing after surgery and on painkillers, he won't be able to drink for a while, not safely, anyways.

Well, you sound pretty smitten with him, so I don't know that anything I say is going to talk you out of it, but the dancing thing sealed it for me. This is of course a massive stereotype, but if he's an American-born Caucasian, his great dancing ability (especially the variety of styles he seems to know) drastically reduced the chances of him being straight. Latinos and African Americans, different story, or if he was from Europe, same thing, but most straight guys shy away from dancing here. Not universally true, of course (I have straight guy friends who have gone to dance classes, ostensibly to sharpen their women-attracting skills), but pretty damning evidence IMHO.

He does seem to be sending a lot of mixed signals, but as a guy, I can't help but wonder what he's waiting for if he's interested in you. Guys aren't subtle about what they want, unlike women. If we want something, and we're confident (which he seems to be), we go for it. You said yourself he has ample opportunities at various parties -- so what's the hold up?

And if he's asexual -- Once again, that's a sign that he might not be comfortable publicly discussing his sexuality, so he masks it, just like many closeted men do who don't want closed-minded people to treat them badly. And if he really is asexual, not gay, is that a satisfying relationship to be in? Wouldn't you want to be with someone who wanted you and your body as much as you wanted theirs?

Not trying to pick on you (so please don't take offense), but you said above you wanted a response more like this, so I'm trying to accommodate. I don't think it will be a disaster if you ask him out and he says no, I'm just trying to make sure you've thought out this possibility so that you can set your expectations properly, as you seem to be selectively focusing on the things that make your case while ignoring some big red flags that go against your desired outcome (as anyone who wanted something would do). I'm just trying to inject some guy POV into the discussion.



ToadOfSteel
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22 Dec 2008, 7:08 pm

Quote:
He does seem to be sending a lot of mixed signals, but as a guy, I can't help but wonder what he's waiting for if he's interested in you. Guys aren't subtle about what they want, unlike women. If we want something, and we're confident (which he seems to be), we go for it. You said yourself he has ample opportunities at various parties -- so what's the hold up?

I myself am confident in almost any situation except where women are concerned. Well, women and applying for jobs. So observing confidence in other areas is no indicator of confidence in another particular area...



billsmithglendale
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22 Dec 2008, 7:39 pm

ToadOfSteel wrote:
Quote:
He does seem to be sending a lot of mixed signals, but as a guy, I can't help but wonder what he's waiting for if he's interested in you. Guys aren't subtle about what they want, unlike women. If we want something, and we're confident (which he seems to be), we go for it. You said yourself he has ample opportunities at various parties -- so what's the hold up?

I myself am confident in almost any situation except where women are concerned. Well, women and applying for jobs. So observing confidence in other areas is no indicator of confidence in another particular area...


True enough, but this guy doesn't seem to be scared of msinglynx at all, nor any of his other apparent admirers. And dancing the tango and other such dances usually requires some degree of confidence around a female partner. A lot of guys shy away from dancing specifically because they don't want to be awkward around/in front of a woman, but this guy -- no problem!

So I stand by my diagnosis -- he sounds like he has big brass ones, and has no problem talking to msinglynx. So why hasn't he made a move already?



msinglynx
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23 Dec 2008, 5:09 pm

billsmithglendale wrote:
ToadOfSteel wrote:
Quote:
He does seem to be sending a lot of mixed signals, but as a guy, I can't help but wonder what he's waiting for if he's interested in you. Guys aren't subtle about what they want, unlike women. If we want something, and we're confident (which he seems to be), we go for it. You said yourself he has ample opportunities at various parties -- so what's the hold up?

I myself am confident in almost any situation except where women are concerned. Well, women and applying for jobs. So observing confidence in other areas is no indicator of confidence in another particular area...


True enough, but this guy doesn't seem to be scared of msinglynx at all, nor any of his other apparent admirers. And dancing the tango and other such dances usually requires some degree of confidence around a female partner. A lot of guys shy away from dancing specifically because they don't want to be awkward around/in front of a woman, but this guy -- no problem!

So I stand by my diagnosis -- he sounds like he has big brass ones, and has no problem talking to msinglynx. So why hasn't he made a move already?


ugh, thats the thing! I get the impression he's tried (to make a move) & I've just totally missed it... so I can't tell if I'm just reading things into it or if he really is interested in me. There's been a few times his co-workers have cracked up watching us talk and they dont seem like mean people, someone told me that might be a sign that he likes me and doesnt know what to say/do. At least I know for a fact that he likes having me around.

Also, it's not true that there aren't subtle guys. I've missed a lot of chances with guys becuz I just dont get their signals. If they dont SAY "I like you, lets go out" or some variation there of, I dont notice at all. Once a friend I had no idea thought of me as more than a sister/friend got drunk in my apartment & THATS when it came out, cuz he said the WORDS. Ugh. I've always needed someones help to figure it out if they dont say it & a LOT of guys wont if they think you dont like them & I am told I frequently come off as completely disinterested. (I'm trying to fix that reading body language books, but I still cant tell what other people mean.)

I used to have a friend who I would explain all this to and she would try to interpret it for me and if she couldn't she'd go with me to kinda spy, but I dont have any friends like that here, which is why I posted all the discriptive stuff. I'm trying to post his every action/ reaction when he's in my presence, as exactly as I can, but then, I am not even sure if my interpretation is the right one.

Also he never takes up those other people either. I once heard a woman offer to take him home & "spend a little quality time" and he turned her down flat (albeit very politely) claiming that he was tired. And I saw a guy trying to invite him out but he just gave a generic response about how busy he was and how he'd try to find time. Not that he's said anything more to me, which is partially why I'm not showing him how much I like him....



msinglynx
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23 Dec 2008, 5:23 pm

billsmithglendale wrote:
If he's going to be rehabbing after surgery and on painkillers, he won't be able to drink for a while, not safely, anyways.

Well, you sound pretty smitten with him, so I don't know that anything I say is going to talk you out of it, but the dancing thing sealed it for me. This is of course a massive stereotype, but if he's an American-born Caucasian, his great dancing ability (especially the variety of styles he seems to know) drastically reduced the chances of him being straight. Latinos and African Americans, different story, or if he was from Europe, same thing, but most straight guys shy away from dancing here. Not universally true, of course (I have straight guy friends who have gone to dance classes, ostensibly to sharpen their women-attracting skills), but pretty damning evidence IMHO.

Not trying to pick on you (so please don't take offense), but you said above you wanted a response more like this, so I'm trying to accommodate. I don't think it will be a disaster if you ask him out and he says no, I'm just trying to make sure you've thought out this possibility so that you can set your expectations properly, as you seem to be selectively focusing on the things that make your case while ignoring some big red flags that go against your desired outcome (as anyone who wanted something would do). I'm just trying to inject some guy POV into the discussion.



Well, I don't know if he's actually GOOD at dancing, tho he took a course at the same place I will be taking lesson starting january. And tho I know he is american, he does not seem to have a typical "american male" sentiment/personality... he is a very A-typical caucasian male, that is for sure: he actually knows about global politics, he's an art lover, a teacher & he's traveled (a LOT). Including to Europe & alaska. I'm pretty sure dancing is common in Italy & he spent a year there. Not to mention he loves kids. He does volunteer work. With the homeless. AND women's assistance programs... but maybe this is just becoming a list of all the reasons I like him. Arg. I wanna smack my head into a wall or something, cuz I know you are probably right, but I like him soooooo much. If he were just a selfish, closed minded idiot I wouldn't care, but he seems to try so hard to not offend anyone, to be helpful & friendly and at the same time he gets shy-seeming to a point were even I can tell. He starts to say things and stops, trips over his words when he has to do public speaking & avoids socializing as much as I do, tho part of his job depends on making connections....

I just can't figure him out :x :evil: :?

Maybe he's being "un-masculine" becomes he works for a female run company? I noticed he talks more about "gross" stuff and sports, etc. when his female coworkers aren't around....
I'm so confused. Is there a body language/ psychiatrist in the house???



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23 Dec 2008, 5:23 pm

Wow, he seems in high demand (especially that very obvious come on from the "let's spend some quality time" woman and very choosy/uninterested in doing things with men and women. Maybe you're right about the asexual thing.

I guess you should at least try to spend some "friend" time outside of work -- if anything's going to happen, it's going to be something like that which leads the way and builds to it.

Things like coffee, seeing an art film you heard of, an art exhibit somewhere else, ect. If he keeps turning that stuff down, move on -- he's got issues, or a hidden private life. At least you'll stop wondering and be able to move on, having made the effort.



msinglynx
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23 Dec 2008, 5:28 pm

billsmithglendale wrote:
Wow, he seems in high demand (especially that very obvious come on from the "let's spend some quality time" woman and very choosy/uninterested in doing things with men and women. Maybe you're right about the asexual thing.

I guess you should at least try to spend some "friend" time outside of work -- if anything's going to happen, it's going to be something like that which leads the way and builds to it.

Things like coffee, seeing an art film you heard of, an art exhibit somewhere else, ect. If he keeps turning that stuff down, move on -- he's got issues, or a hidden private life. At least you'll stop wondering and be able to move on, having made the effort.


Eh he's a hot, smart, NICE guy. Those don't turn up every day.

I'm gonna try.. at least. I will have to figure out how to "subtly" invite him out and analize him before he becomes one of my obsessions :?
Those were really good suggestions, thanks. Also, it's nice knowing it's not just me who'scompletely confused by his behavior.



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12 Feb 2009, 7:00 pm

I know this is an old topic but

OMYGOD!
He just sent me an email saying that he was gonna "relax his professionalism" (has a policy of not hanging out with volunteers) & invited me to a house party he is giving in april (for his parents?)... Wow, I'm sure this only means he thinks I'd make a cool friend, but it's still awesome.

;D super super SUPER happy right now...