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Magnus
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16 Dec 2008, 9:32 pm

Sorry Claire333 I misinterpreted this:

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I am already very dissociative, frankly see it as a flaw, and could not imagine trying to do it on purpose. I have never had a hallucination, and also cannot imagine wanting to induce such a state. I am nutty enough without seeing things that are not there.
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Claire 333 wrote:
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I can probably count on my fingers the number of dreams I have remembered in my adult life. I really do not concern myself with dreams. I have always wondered why anyone would care about random brain activity while sleeping, or why they would choose hallucinogenics while awake.

I think dream interpretation enriches my life. It's amazing how much our conscious mind filters to protect our ego. Dream analysis is a great way to get to know the inner works of the psyche.

To each his own... :wink:

legato, I agree with the importance of objective interpretation.


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skafather84
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16 Dec 2008, 9:33 pm

Legato wrote:
Magpie,

My objection isn't that hallucinogens don't have value, in fact I've come to a number of realizations about the beauty and nature of the world around me through interpretation of hallucinogenic trips (esp. mushrooms).

My objection is the idea that hallucinogens give you knowledge somehow. It's all about how we interpret the trip, and the rest of our experiences in life, to be sure. Any knowledge gained through interpretation of the trip was already in our mind somehow, we just needed provoking. Much like the Newton's apple, if you'll forgive the stretch - it wasn't the apple that told Newton the nature of gravity, it was the interpretation of the apple's action that led to a realization about gravity.



the change is in perception....which can mean everything.


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Legato
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16 Dec 2008, 9:34 pm

^ I do not deny that.

Magpie, I love experiencing dreams and attempting to interpret them. I've actually come with a number of ideas for a novel from my dreams.



claire-333
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16 Dec 2008, 9:50 pm

Magnus wrote:
Sorry Claire333 I misinterpreted this:
No biggie.
Magnus wrote:
To each his own... :wink:
I agree. Sorry if I came across as judgemental. I really do have trouble understanding. Maybe this thread will help me. I have seen many posts on this site discussing the natural tendency for aspies to escape into their own heads, in fantasy as well as interests. Many people admitting they are most happy in this state, and that it causes problems in their life and relationships. I have always found this to be a personal flaw. I have trouble understanding how actively persuing disconnection is a good thing.



Magnus
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17 Dec 2008, 4:00 am

I don't see it like that. I don't see how seeking knowledge can be thought of as a personal flaw. Psychedelics such as Salvia Divinorum, LSD, DMT and ayahuasca are by no means enjoyable but it is worth it to to the person who wishes to gain knowledge to suffer for it because it changes your perception afterward. Shrooms can be enjoyable much more so than these other more potent psychedelics, I admit.

Our consciousness filters out information to suit our belief system and how we choose to interact with the world. In reality, it is more of a buffer while the bigger picture is that our brains are more of a sort of conduit. In other words, we are more of receivers and our brain filters out what it can't handle.

When you take DMT, salvia divinorum, LSD, or ayahuasca, you change the channel of your perceiver. The more a person is open to receive knowledge, the easier the experience will be, however if you have taken these psychedelics or read the accounts of those who have, you will see that it's not like getting high. The affects are long lasting and life changing because it dismantles the ego. Even dream interpretation is a far cry from escapism. You have to confront your inner demons and be brutally honest with yourself many times.

When you experience a release of the ego and allow yourself to change perceptions, sometimes it can feel enjoyable if you can laugh at yourself and how absurd everything actually is. Mostly it's felt like a sort of death of an aspect of the personality and it's very scary. Any change like this can feel like a rebirth. If you can accept this death or release, you can grow and experience a renewal. Many myths talk about this snake metaphor.
Jesus's crucifixion is the prime example of how it is necessary to release the body in order to achieve salvation. I do however believe the crucifixion was real.


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ThatRedHairedGrrl
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17 Dec 2008, 3:22 pm

Magnus, having looked briefly through the rest of this thread, a book recommendation: The Cosmic Serpent by Jeremy Narby. Narby is a scientist who went to the Peruvian (I think) jungle and took ayahuasca with the shamans, and ended up with the conclusion that their healing knowledge of plants actually came directly from their own DNA - which appeared to them in a trance state as vast multicolored snakes. Fascinating reading, whatever you think about his theory.

DMT is just one hallucinogenic chemical in the brain. We also have endorphins and endocannabinoids, and it's probably that there may be endogenous equivalents to all the major psychotropic substances the human race is so fond of imbibing in plant form, otherwise we wouldn't have the receptors for them. I strongly feel there should be more research into this, but I'd guess it would just get exploited by big pharma...


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17 Dec 2008, 3:33 pm

i dont believe in supernatural things in the slightest, and thats only because it sorta goes against the way our world works, physics. i definitely believe in aliens because theres a good chance of that. the "supernatural visions" people have i think are all created by our minds. why else would some people be able to do it and others can never, what are they more important then others? is it also a coincidence that those who do have these visions also have superior ability to visualize things when they close their eyes. when i close my eyes its always blackness and i have never seen anything, under halucinogenics or that wierd awake/sleeping visions people have.



Magnus
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17 Dec 2008, 3:45 pm

Hello ThatRedHairedGrrl :D

Thank you for recommending that book. I'll look for it next time I go to the bookstore. It is interesting what you said about our DNA being activated by the plants and that is how they speak to us. The shamans believe the plants speak to them. When you consider the laborious effort it takes to make ayahuasca, it's not hard to believe. How can these people who live out in the forest who have no experience with chemistry know such intricate things about how to make ayahuasca so that our bodies won't break down the psychoactive properties. Could it be that it the knowledge comes through our own DNA. If this is true we should learn how to manipulate it. Maybe this is how some miracles are performed. Maybe we can alter our own genetic makeup through our will power. I also read that music can realign the body and bring it into harmony.

Crick, who discovered DNA, believed that DNA was sent by aliens. He was an atheist. I wonder if he came to the conclusion that DNA was sent by aliens just to make his former belief system jar with his new found knowledge from his LSD trips. I'm also very curious about those visions that many people had about the aliens operating a computer and manipulating us as I have stated in my first post here on this thread.


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Magnus
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17 Dec 2008, 3:47 pm

Potsic wrote:

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. the "supernatural visions" people have i think are all created by our minds. why else would some people be able to do it and others can never, what are they more important then others? is it also a coincidence that those who do have these visions also have superior ability to visualize things when they close their eyes. when i close my eyes its always blackness and i have never seen anything, under halucinogenics or that wierd awake/sleeping visions people have.


Like I said before, about 2% of the population have a higher production of DMT and can enter trance states. People are different. Some people don't remember their dreams at all.

The point of this thread is to point out that hallucinations may be more valid than previously believed.


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19 Dec 2008, 3:09 pm

Aliens in fact have NOTHING to do with Angels, Demons, Ghosts, Fairies, Goblins, Dragons, and other supernatural and mythological creatures! Aliens clearly ARE possible, and are even LIKELY! The question remains whether or not they are actual.
There is NOTHING supernatural about UFOs and ETL, they are in a totally different category.



skafather84
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19 Dec 2008, 3:28 pm

Haliphron wrote:
Aliens in fact have NOTHING to do with Angels, Demons, Ghosts, Fairies, Goblins, Dragons, and other supernatural and mythological creatures! Aliens clearly ARE possible, and are even LIKELY! The question remains whether or not they are actual.
There is NOTHING supernatural about UFOs and ETL, they are in a totally different category.



agreed.

unless you're saying this because you received a probe and found out about a past life...because then you're just crazy.


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Magnus
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19 Dec 2008, 5:26 pm

Quote:
haliphron:
Aliens in fact have NOTHING to do with Angels, Demons, Ghosts, Fairies, Goblins, Dragons, and other supernatural and mythological creatures! Aliens clearly ARE possible, and are even LIKELY! The question remains whether or not they are actual.
There is NOTHING supernatural about UFOs and ETL, they are in a totally different category.


The theory is that aliens are a hallucination. Have you read John Mack? The point I'm trying to make is that we see things based on what our belief system is able to handle. haliphron, did you even read the first post here? Stop screaming too.


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