When is harming others acceptable to Autistic people?

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davros1973
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21 Dec 2008, 5:05 pm

Ticker wrote:
Why do you think Aspergers people are oh so innocent to where they can be manipulated? Maybe Kanners autistics can be manipulated. But Aspergers if anything are harder to manipulate because we are so set in our ways and so stubborn. I think it would be very easy for an Aspergers person to kill and totally enjoy it. Its obvious from being a WP member for years that there are several people on here that if you gave them a gun they would immediately go out and kill a massive group of people. Aspergers people can get so depressed and so angry at the world because of the way that they are rejected or mistreated that they can easily lose empathy or never develop it and would not think twice about killing even their own parents. Whether as you said you "really don't want to think of Aspies being mean and cruel" many Aspies are exceptionally mean and cruel to other people especially their own families, spouse and NT's in general. You may not want to think about it because maybe you are an exceptionally nice Aspie, moreso an exceptionally nice human being, but there are plenty of Aspies who are your exact opposite.


Maybe I am a bit naive when it comes to suppositions about the characters of AS people. I don't know - I guess I'm exploring that a bit now.

I'm not sure if I am that "nice". I don't know. Maybe I operate from a position of fear? Though I try not to abuse power or responsibility if I do have it. I care about people. Everybody. But I sometimes feel that's like a curse ... I think it makes me vulnerable. It certainly makes me feel lonely. I sometimes feel like that ... Greek mythology chap who's tied up or something so that he can never drink and quench his thirst despite being periodically soaked or something. I forget the details. I can be surrounded by people - or with my partner, Liz, for whom I do feel love and care for so very much ... yet I still often feel lonely. I wonder that my feeling compassion for everybody just serves to compound that.

I wonder that if I had a life like some people here where I might be subjected to greater and/or sustained abuse of one type or another then maybe I would have a different attitude to hurting others ... I can't know that. I hope I never have cause to find out.

I do find it difficult to think of Aspies as being deliberately mean and cruel - on the whole that doesn't seem to be the case. I thought one of the differences between Asperger's and the basic schizoid was that AS people want to be part of society? There's so much I want to say on this but I can't express it. I can understand people being unintentionally cruel ... and even intentionally mean/cruel as part of acting-out their own pain etc. ... but I can't see it happening for any sophisticated purpose and I think that given opportunity to stop such behaviour then I like to think people would.

I think lots of people imagine being in power (e.g. having a gun) and going out killing everybody who they perceive to have hurt them in the past ... but I really want to think that most people would not do that if given the opportunity. I really really really hope that.

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I was kind of meaning Kanner's Autistics when I referred to the possibility of manipulation ... however I think everybody can be manipulated. Before my first major depressive period I used to be quite good at hypnosis. I used to attend a "club" when I was 18, 19 or something like that. Since being depressed from about 12 years ago I haven't been able to meditate deeply or go into a deep trance without starting to feel panic. The inability sort of crept in over time as my mental stability went. Anyway ... I remember one of the things put forward about hypnosis ... it's very difficult to get someone to do something they really don't want to do. An example would be to suggest to someone to stick their head in an oven (to gas themselves). Unless a person was suicidal or something (in which case they would probably be in a mental state not conducive to hypnosis in the first place) then a person would be very unlikely to comply with such a suggestion no matter how deep the trance. However, it might be possible to trick a person into sticking their head into an oven if they were made to think it was an open window with lovely fragrances to be experienced.

I have a reasonably high IQ. I have quite a lot of social experience. I distrust people on a social level instinctively now - I rarely let my guard down. I've seen lots of film and tv and I normally understand all the speech and actions - including all the manipulation that goes on that we find so entertaining. I think I'm reasonably emotionally mature. I'm not afraid of authority and I will take a stand against ... well ... everybody ... if it is about something I really believe in ... even if that condemns me to loneliness and isolation for ever. BUT ... I'm sure I could be manipulated. I wear my "colors" for all to see. I'm "genuine". The things that make me "tick" are readily apparent for others to discern/analyse and use against me. I'm not socially sophisticated. I might not fall for the same social-manipulation tricks that NT people so easily fall for as I have different motivators and can see such things objectively ... but I'm sure somebody intelligent enough (to maintain consistency) with enough perseverence could manipulate me. I'm not sure that anybody could ever get me to torture someone else ... but I think that if I just assume that then I am making myself vulnerable to that possibility.

I guess part of what I was saying in the first place is that I think we all allow ourselves to be "manipulated" by society to an extent so as to try to meet the social norm as best we can. Are we doing that, if we are doing that, just for an easy life? To not make too much trouble? And if so ... how far would we go to fit in? Maybe it's the mean and cruel ones that are the only ones who haven't let themselves be manipulated? I hope not.

And I'm rambling again, sorry. I'm much better at writing than I am at talking ... but I do envy the clarity with which some of the others here write. I find it really hard to express myself in any medium.


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ZakFiend
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22 Dec 2008, 4:22 am

anna-banana wrote:
ephemerella wrote:

The NT world is fundamentally unfair, corrupt and exploitive. Trying to inflict justice on it through terrorism or violent attacks on those who didn't harm you directly, is to become part of the random evil of the NT world.


I totally agree, very good point.


Since we're all agreeing with one another, I also agree!