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What did you think about the video?
I agree with what he says in the video 42%  42%  [ 5 ]
I do not agree with what he says in the video 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
I found a flaw in his logic 8%  8%  [ 1 ]
I didnt watch the video 50%  50%  [ 6 ]
Total votes : 12

just-me
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21 Dec 2008, 3:33 am

DNForrest
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21 Dec 2008, 6:18 am

Overly simplified and really not that terrifying (relatively). Albert Bartlett makes a much better speech on similar issues, he gave a guest lecture in one of my senior ChE classes, which this guy actually posted a video of part of on his Youtube account.



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21 Dec 2008, 9:28 am

It comes off as a bit bias but I don't try to look at the extremes of global warming since I'm not a fortune teller.

I have to say though why people can't look at the big picture. I mean it's already been scientifically proven that fossil feel DOES affect the ozone layer. We can also look at much of the natural resources being lost simply by deforestation.

But we can also take into consideration that there is also evidence of lands shifting by natural causes.

I would defintitely take pollution or global warming a little more serious since it's one thing that is preventable by us.

But we know that all this comes down to money. If we did go for an alternative to fossil fuel it would put many places out of businesses such as oil companies, automobile companies, plastic companies, and etc.

There are pros and cons to this issue of global warming but what it gets down to is either naivety and/ or money.


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just-me
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22 Dec 2008, 1:22 am

I think we should play it safe and try to reduce our carbon foot print, plant more trees and do more for the enviroment.

If we don't we may lose our green earth as we know it , climate change or no.



Forsaken
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22 Dec 2008, 5:54 am

Everything we do affects our global climate.

Egypt, back when they first started making the pyramids it was lush green savanna full of forests,
over time it changed with its use, yes much (if not most) of it had to do with natural changes but
we had some to do with it, and our impact can be seen over time around the world.

take a look at the forests around the world, back in the 1600 the world was lush with them,
now, in comparison, there is not much left of them, this all has its impact.

the oceans of the world is changing as well, there used to be huge forests of underwater plant life,
yes there is still much, but its not as diverse and sustaining of the diversities of life, yes you hear bout
us finding new types of sea life now and then, thats because were reaching out and going too and
disturbing regions we have not polluted yet, and many sea life critters are trying to move to
new habitats and adapt in order to survive.

In the arctic regions were hearing more and more about of the more known animals dieing off,
their food supples are dwindling, their habitats fading, not to mention were hunting them to extinction.

our worlds ozone, yes in global history if flexes and changes and bounces back, but we have been stripping
its means of being able to bounce back, the times in our earths history that its bounced back it had all the
means to do so with the vast forests and volcanic activities, but now, its a dieing world.

so, yes, we are killing not only our world, but our selves.

Yes we may survive, but the world and our Eco system will first undergo some massive changes,
most of our populations will have to necessarily die off, and we few who will be left will have adapted.
by then perhaps we will have learned something, and over time the earth will reclaim much of what we took,
and then as we once again advance on its face perhaps in our new reverence we will take better care of it and our selves.

The meek shall inherit the earth.



pakled
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22 Dec 2008, 9:32 pm

I think he's had a few too many Pepsi's and Mountain Dews' (look behind him...;)... Caffeine poison, the silent killer...;)

I think that there is a trend towards warmer temperatures, that may continue over time. However, I do not believe that we have everything figured out yet. As with any science in it's infancy, a hundred years from now they'll be giggling over some of our assumptions.

And as usual, the situation warrants further studies...



monty
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23 Dec 2008, 4:52 pm

MissConstrue wrote:
... I mean it's already been scientifically proven that fossil feel DOES affect the ozone layer.


Not so much. Chlorofluorocarbons do drift up to the ozone layer, where they catalyze the breakdown of ozone. That is pretty established, and why CFCs are being phased out. Greenhouse gas doesn't have much effect on the ozone as far as I have read. And the breakdown of the ozone layer doesn't have much of an effect on climate - it keeps out UV rays which are more of a danger to DNA directly but which are a small part of the Earth's energy budget.



just-me
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24 Dec 2008, 5:04 pm

Forsaken wrote:
Everything we do affects our global climate.

Egypt, back when they first started making the pyramids it was lush green savanna full of forests,
over time it changed with its use, yes much (if not most) of it had to do with natural changes but
we had some to do with it, and our impact can be seen over time around the world.

take a look at the forests around the world, back in the 1600 the world was lush with them,
now, in comparison, there is not much left of them, this all has its impact.

the oceans of the world is changing as well, there used to be huge forests of underwater plant life,
yes there is still much, but its not as diverse and sustaining of the diversities of life, yes you hear bout
us finding new types of sea life now and then, thats because were reaching out and going too and
disturbing regions we have not polluted yet, and many sea life critters are trying to move to
new habitats and adapt in order to survive.

In the arctic regions were hearing more and more about of the more known animals dieing off,
their food supples are dwindling, their habitats fading, not to mention were hunting them to extinction.

our worlds ozone, yes in global history if flexes and changes and bounces back, but we have been stripping
its means of being able to bounce back, the times in our earths history that its bounced back it had all the
means to do so with the vast forests and volcanic activities, but now, its a dieing world.

so, yes, we are killing not only our world, but our selves.

Yes we may survive, but the world and our Eco system will first undergo some massive changes,
most of our populations will have to necessarily die off, and we few who will be left will have adapted.
by then perhaps we will have learned something, and over time the earth will reclaim much of what we took,
and then as we once again advance on its face perhaps in our new reverence we will take better care of it and our selves.

The meek shall inherit the earth.


I couldent agree more!
Sadly we could try to stop ruining everything and fix it but I doubt that will happen untill its to late if ever.



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24 Dec 2008, 6:31 pm

Column A and true, IMO but we should look at it more as a challenge. I refuse to see it as the end of the world as we know it.... And just 'party on'.

I mean, we're (mankind is) innovative and intelligent enough. A problem, in general but surely this one in particular, can be seen as a challenge. If there is an urge, a will, a wish, a fire, a passion, a graving, etc..... there is a way.

I think there's tons and tons of money to be made by smart folks, who (which?) tune in on that urge; for a better climate, environment, a healthier Earth or climate change in the positive direction; that's becoming bigger and bigger.

I shave my head bold if I'm wrong here.



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24 Dec 2008, 6:56 pm

MissConstrue wrote:
But we know that all this comes down to money. If we did go for an alternative to fossil fuel it would put many places out of businesses such as oil companies, automobile companies, plastic companies, and etc.

Well, given the clout of oil companies, there's no reason in principle why they couldn't invest in alternative energies. Part of the more serious thing right now is that it really isn't that profitable to invest in alternative energy; if ~$100 dollars a barrel for oil had been sustained (although we haven't seen the last of it of course), doing any number of things could be justified, but when cheap energy is lying around not just the oil companies but everyone is going to go for it because it makes sense. You couldn't switch everything over to alternative energies right now because it would make everyone effectively much poorer even if it makes long term sense.

buhsides, this table is clearly more accurate:
Image
I would totally tell you where I stole this from if I could remember


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24 Dec 2008, 7:26 pm

MissConstrue wrote:
But we know that all this comes down to money. If we did go for an alternative to fossil fuel it would put many places out of businesses such as oil companies, automobile companies, plastic companies, and etc.


But that's the big problem, with the exception of nuclear power, there aren't any viable alternatives to fossil fuels, coal, and whatnot. The only people that claim that alternative energies can are generally either the companies that will profit from people buying into more and more things like wind and solar energy, or R&D people that want more funding. If you talk to these people off of the record (and I have, a lot), they admit that there's nothing that can get us to a fraction of what we need. Sure, it helps divert carbon output, but it isn't a replacement. Admittedly this could change, but I wouldn't count on it soon. There's a reason that there's a massive surge of world governments (the US included) to buy into building new nuclear power plants. Here's a map of all of the new reactors planned to be built in the US, the first in decades:
http://www.nrc.gov/reactors/new-reactor ... r-map.html

And if you look at their list of plant applications that haven't been approved yet, it's fairly large. China's planning at least two dozen completed by 2020.

Now the really big problem is in plastics, as my polymers professor put it, "We're going to have to start inventing a lot of new chemistry, and soon". We're a society that's pretty dependent on plastics, so once oil's no longer cost-efficient to produce, we're screwed with our current state.



Last edited by DNForrest on 26 Dec 2008, 9:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

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24 Dec 2008, 9:20 pm

The guy raises a very good point. 20 years of economic depression is a small cost to pay, and it's simply wiser to deal with a long-term problem rather then short term ones. The society that emerged from the Great Depression was and is morally and intellectually superior (in SOME ways) to the society we live in now. A little bit less luxury makes people a lot less willing to take everything for granted. I already live with few expenses, and its a pretty good lifestyle. It might be a lot harder to get a job and so on but I think the long-term benefits will far outweigh the possible outcomes. I'd rather live off peanut butter sandwiches then have to live in a refugee camp or do hard labor just to make a living in a world where food costs even more then oil.



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25 Dec 2008, 6:55 pm

Quote:
But that's the big problem, with the exception of nuclear power, there aren't any viable alternatives to fossil fuels, coal, and whatnot.

Even if we haven't yet found enough sustainable energy sources, that doesn't mean they don't exist. And if we are going to assume that they don't, then we might as well just roll over and die now, and I for one am not willing to do that.


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01 Jan 2009, 2:40 am

Now that we have a very good record going back 50,000 years, we find it goes up, down, sideways, with equal suddenness. It did all this before humans, and will after.

We are in a long ice age, and it is coming back. this is the longest warm period in a long time. More that 150,000 years, perhaps much longer. I doubt that gobal warming could prolong the warm, as when it gets this warm or a bit warmer, the last two times it started to snow, and Saint Louis and London became year round ski resorts.

Three miles of ice comes and goes without human help.

I think global warming is part of that thinking that says god created the universe so he could be born on earth, because we are so important. We are not important, and we are destructive, but nothing compared to the yellowstone Caldera, the Tumba eruption, a few space rocks that missed the turn, and the planet has just kept running along, with less species.

Species increase as they find a larger food supply, as we did with farming, and one day, it is cold, there is a blight, something, and soon there is no food, and no species.

Humans do not have long term problems.

So Party on!