Why do NTs believe each other's lies?

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slowmutant
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25 Dec 2008, 11:24 pm

thyme wrote:
Yes and if you go to one co-worker and tell them them what terrible things they say about each other behind their backs they just will not believe you.


You sound like a 14 year-old girl. Are you?



Warsie
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26 Dec 2008, 12:14 am

ephemerella wrote:
Not just NTs but other apes:


I see what you did there :P


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26 Dec 2008, 12:19 am

slowmutant wrote:
thyme wrote:
Yes and if you go to one co-worker and tell them them what terrible things they say about each other behind their backs they just will not believe you.


You sound like a 14 year-old girl. Are you?


I don't know if you're trying to conduct an ad hominem fallacy, but if you are, she is right. Heard of "Office Politics"? I think the comedy Office Space jokes on the byzantine rules and social ladders and other BS done there.

Also no she does not seem to be 14 to me.


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26 Dec 2008, 12:20 am

Greentea wrote:
This is one of the enigmas I've yet to uncover about NTs... From direct observation, all NTs know that they're deceptive/manipulative and lie through their teeth in order to get their needs / desires met and escalate the social power ladder as much as possible.

False. A generalization like this only supports the generalizations that all people with Asperger's are 'tards.
Greentea wrote:
They also call it "being human", which means they believe/know that everyone else does it too.

False. Another generalization by one known to be militant anti-"NT".
Greentea wrote:
Yet, they believe others' lies / white lies / manipulations (otherwise, things like kissing ass wouldn't be as effective as they are. Kissing ass is effective because someone is buying your flattery of them as genuine liking).

How do you know this to be true?
Greentea wrote:
Has someone here deciphered this mystery and can enlighten me? The only idea I can come up with is that they get caught prey of "wishful thinking"...

There is no "mystery" to decipher. There is no conspiracy or mentality unique only to people you label as "NT" (something I find incredibly insulting).



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26 Dec 2008, 12:31 am

Tails wrote:
And in fact, those who display pathologically manipulative/deceptive behaviour are, as I stated before, likely to be falling into a clinically significant non-NT functioning. It is NOT 'normal' NT behaviour.


because it's done too much


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26 Dec 2008, 12:32 am

NocturnalQuilter wrote:
How do you know this to be true?


she looked over the responses of the gut having his "ass kissed" and pandered to to the guy kissing the ass.


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26 Dec 2008, 12:37 am

Warsie wrote:
she looked over the responses of the gut having his "ass kissed" and pandered to to the guy kissing the ass.


But this does not constitute a truth that can be applied to "all" neuro-tyically-inclined people.
C'mon! This whole rant has gotten so old!! !



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26 Dec 2008, 12:47 am

TheMaverick wrote:
hahaha
ie wondered this for years.
are they just too stupid to realise the lies or what?

It's not that they don't realize they are being lied to; it's that they see the brown-nosing of their employees as a confirmation of their status. It signifies that your employee sees you as important enough in the office hierarchy (or wherever) to work towards gaining your favor. It is seen as an act of submission, no matter how sincere or insincere the compliment.



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26 Dec 2008, 12:56 am

DwightF wrote:
Exactly. "Framing" is not inherently lying. Appropriate use can lead the listener to, and reveal in the speaker greater understanding..


well it is still manipulative. "oh so you're arguing against pro-life. so you must hate life" or "Oh so you're against pro-choice what do you have against freedom". Phrasing the debate.....granted, it' fun to do in Policy Debate and it ia a fun way to do rhetoric, etc (have 3 years in policy debate to back this up). But still, if you think about it.... :?


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26 Dec 2008, 12:57 am

NocturnalQuilter wrote:
But this does not constitute a truth that can be applied to "all" neuro-tyically-inclined people.
C'mon! This whole rant has gotten so old!! !


well why do people kiss ass? I'm sure this applies to a majority of NTs, if not at least a plurality.


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26 Dec 2008, 12:59 am

Warsie wrote:
well why do people kiss ass? I'm sure this applies to a majority of NTs, if not at least a plurality.


I really don't have an answer for you. I guess I never really cared one way or t'other how other people treat each other.

(And I have no idea what a "plurality" is.)



timeisdead
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26 Dec 2008, 1:01 am

Warsie wrote:
NocturnalQuilter wrote:
But this does not constitute a truth that can be applied to "all" neuro-tyically-inclined people.
C'mon! This whole rant has gotten so old!! !


well why do people kiss ass? I'm sure this applies to a majority of NTs, if not at least a plurality.

They do it in hopes that the person above them can help them out in life. For example, they may partake in brown-nosing in order to get a promotion, a letter of recommendation, or a better grade on the term paper....



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26 Dec 2008, 1:30 am

Warsie wrote:
DwightF wrote:
Exactly. "Framing" is not inherently lying. Appropriate use can lead the listener to, and reveal in the speaker greater understanding..


well it is still manipulative. "oh so you're arguing against pro-life. so you must hate life" or "Oh so you're against pro-choice what do you have against freedom". Phrasing the debate.....granted, it' fun to do in Policy Debate and it ia a fun way to do rhetoric, etc (have 3 years in policy debate to back this up). But still, if you think about it.... :?



THANK YOU.

Kinda like how some people think if you are Pro Aspie, you must hate NT's (I see that a lot on this forum). Also kinda like how some people seem to blurt out how anti NT stuff is getting old based on people trying to understand NT behavior, including those traits some people construe as negative, such as lying, and some people who claim the generalization is false also are proving how the generalization is more true everytime they manipulate the conversation in such a framing manner, especially when said people fall under the generalized category.

Either way, the better man is the one trying to understand the other.

(Sorry. I don't mean this geared at you Warsie, but your response is what inspired this response to other people)



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26 Dec 2008, 3:40 am

Greentea wrote:
pursuit of career, needing a change, etc.


well those are technically correct :P

slowmutant wrote:
This is some silly bullsh*t right here.

It would be like asking, "Why do all black people have gold teeth?"

:roll:


or "why are many of their women sarcastic b*****s with 'attitude' who "don't take s**t" and f*****g annoying body language" :wink:

also lol @ your "we need to stop the hatin" :P

Gone recently to a ghetto XD

I didn't know here were ghettos in CANADA...well except the redneck trailer parks in the Prairie Provinces based off what some people told me


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Last edited by Warsie on 26 Dec 2008, 4:12 am, edited 2 times in total.

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26 Dec 2008, 3:53 am

NocturnalQuilter wrote:
I really don't have an answer for you. I guess I never really cared one way or t'other how other people treat each other.


:P :P :P :P

Quote:
(And I have no idea what a "plurality" is.)


a significant number, but not a majority (51%<). Used in elections a lot to show a person out of 3+ candidates who wins.

timeisdead wrote:
They do it in hopes that the person above them can help them out in life. For example, they may partake in brown-nosing in order to get a promotion, a letter of recommendation, or a better grade on the term paper....


Thank you. There's also to gain influence (which could fit under "help them out in life" :P )

Tantybi wrote:
(Sorry. I don't mean this geared at you Warsie, but your response is what inspired this response to other people)


That's understandable, it's not as if you're flaming me or anything 8)


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26 Dec 2008, 10:44 am

In the simple view, people lie because telling the truth has not gone well.

Our classifications are simple, one cannot be half Republican and half communist.

One cannot take a third of one religion and two thirds of another.

No one likes school, but they know better than to say so, for the truth will cause problems.

Lying is something taught to the young, that getting by is the most important thing.

Deception is a great tool, I use it often.

If the hairless ground apes knew what I was doing, there would be accidents.

Deception of perception, never let anyone know your goals, wear a mask, or they will do everything they can to block you.

So you play a role, and they attack the imaginary.

In many cultures a person has a real name, which is kept a secret. This is the real person, and everything about it is kept a total secret.

Very bad things will happen if anyone learns your true name.

Then everyone is aware they are dealing with the social personas of all others, and not with their true selves.

It is a seperation of personal goals from group goals.

It is the same in modern western culture, except the true self is lacking, they are only the mask.

The reason the AS hairless ape has problems is self, a strong sense of it, a perception of lack in others.

Keeping self a secret is wise, lying to everyone is wise.

"Unto thine own self be true, and you will be false to no man,
but wear the best clothes you can, for clothes make the man."