Thoughts on Gaza War

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That's more what I was talking about, yes. Those suggest some realistic reasons why Palestinians do not wish to come under Israeli rule, that do not rely on "because they are Israelis and our god says hate them."

One thing that occurred to me whilst running through that: Some of those illegal settlements are most likely there for strategic rather than economic (or any other) reason. Golan Heights, if memory serves, are a nice place to start a long range firefight from, and I imagine that keeping people there, legally or otherwise, is wholly to stop others using them aggressively. I suspect that some of the other sites serve a similar purpose. It looks like the current campaign has a broadly similar aim.. the taking of certain strategically popular launch sites.

Given that Israel is not going to cease to exist, what solution would anyone like to apply to the Israeli issue of being randomly shot at? Is it really likely that if Israel returns all these sites, that suddenly Hamas will stop? What SHOULD Israel be doing?

Israel should remove all pro-Jewish laws (right to return), remove all references to Judaism in the name of the country and the constitution, and change the republic into a federation based on the canton system of Bosnia & Herzegovina. Israel must allow all the Palestinian refugees to return.

Israel should cease to remain Israel and become the Republic of Jerusalem.

Peace.

Should the Jews convert to Islam and forget who they are, as well?

I think Khan_sama's idea is actually really good. And I don't see anything about having a non-secular government that would prevent Jews from practicing their religion.

Khan Sama's idea seems pretty one-sided. Why should one side of the conflict get a raw deal while the other side has total wish-fulfillment?

I'm totally confused about what's so horrible about having a secular state.

From Israel to Nonreal? topic

Thus far I am impressed with the restraint shown by both sides in this dilemma, as there is no black and white answer.

Nevertheless, Israel will not let itself become anything less than a Jewish state. Would any of the Islamic states become Christian/secular (with the possible exception of Turkey, in that it is more moderate). Khan_Sama's ideas are not feasible.

Though I live in a neighbourhood with people all religions/cultures, etc. I would not want to visit some of their countries of birth because of the violent politics and unstable governments. War and insurrection happens in lands that are not stable/democracies. Examples are Syria, Pakistan, Russia, Greece, and some of the south and Latin American nations. I could not count on the host nations to help me should I get into trouble.

Democracy is a difficult kind of government to sustain. And democracies are the only sorts of governments that the world can criticize legitimately. If I went to China or Syria and said something out of line, I would be jailed. In Canada, the US, Europe and even in Israel people can peacefully protest.

Here at WP it is also democratic. We can criticize/comment and argue logically and we will be heard. The same is not true on other sites.

He didn't say that , try to understand his post first otherwise don't put words in others' mouths.

And would that prevent or stop Hamas from killing jews? If so, how? I did point out that Israel ceasing to exist is not an option, because the citizens of Israel, for better or worse, will fight to the last man (and woman) to remain as Israel. This is a given.. they have already done so before now. Becoming a non-jewish state would in all likelihood not help. Palestine under British occupation was a non-jewish state, and nobody was happy about that either.

This suggestion sounds far too one-sided and anti-jewish to be popular with the citizens of Israel Also, what should Palestine and other neighbour states do that would balance such heavy-handed requests?

What would the return of Palestinian refuges to their original homes cause? What would be the result? Would they be content with that, or would they desire other territories ceded back to them? Would they want to be under Palestinian authority, or accede to Israeli authority?

At a very basic level, the current conflict is a piece of piss to solve. Both sides need to stop shooting. Hamas lays off the rockets, Israel knocks off the airstrikes. Currently everyone is asking Israel to stop, but Hamas are openly ranting about shooting even more. BOTH SIDES. Simple as that. Once they stop killing each other, then maybe a bit more effort could be put into mediating a settlement that works for both sides. (Ie NOT the complete destruction of Israel.)

I don't think the Palestinians would care to much who rules them. They have never had really had self rule. Before the birth of modern Israel, Jews and Muselms used to live in peace. Palestinians living in Israel I think are happy.



You can launch rockets from anywhere, I don't see them being much more accurate launched from higher positions. Height would be a factor in close range combat.

The problem for the Palestinians is that the West Bank is right in the heart of ancient Israel. That's the real reason they colonised the West Bank.





If Israel is not going to cease to exist. Israel needs to abandon all it's jewish settlements and also let the refugees return back to their homes.

Just think, if the phoenecians had pushed just a little harder, we would all be having a terribly different conversation right now.

Israel is officially under the banner of secularism. It just has pro Jewish laws, as in the ethnic group, not the religion. According to the Israeli law of return, anyone who has a Jewish grandparent can immediately become a citizen of Israel.

As for democracy, if a canton system is established in the geographical area known as Palestine, there will be no conflict between the federal states. Bosnia & Herzegovina, Switzerland, are excellent examples, although the later tends to lean more towards direct democracy while the former does not.



Yes. Hamas has shown it is willing to accept a Palestinian state with 1967 boundaries, with a permanent truce with Israel. Their goal is the establishment of an Islamic state, ie, Islamic laws. In turn, they offered Israel a permanent truce. http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1035414.html

In my model each federal unit or canton exercises its own laws. There is no "Israeli state" or "Palestinian state", there is only a single federal state with two republics, one which is Jewish, the other Arab. None has power over the other. The Jewish state has its own government, the Palestinian state has its own. The federal government is combined and its members are selected by both governments, on a rotational basis, similar to Switzerland's role of the President, in this case, applying to every single minister, equally, ie, there are an equal number of Israeli ministers as well as Arab ministers.

Benefits for Israel -

Recognition by the Muslim world, trade benefits, cordial relations with Arab states, NO MORE BLOODSHED.



How's it one-sided and anti-Jewish? There are no references to Palestine or Israel in the Federal unit. If the Israeli republic in the federation can enact a "right to return" law for Jews, the Palestinian republic in the federation can do the same for Palestinian refugees.

Palestine and other neighbouring states need not do anything. Bosnian civil war. Remember? Similar scenario. Different circumstances.



??

I am a member of the Baha'i faith. All religions lead to God/salvation/nirvana/the force/whatever you believe in. They are all the same. Religions were revealed in different periods depending on the social and political situation. Instead of focusing on the similarities, we dispute on the differences.



Read above. My idea is to make the Republic of Jerusalem completely neutral and unbiased, without favouring any ethnic group.

Peace.

Wouldn't matter it's in the bible.

If you read this ancent Israel only existed for 300 hundred years, between 1020 BC and 720 BC. Ancent Israel is ancent history.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine# ... ble_period

I wonder what became of the SIZU.

I wonder how long Israel would remain a Jewish state if the USA stopped propping up thier military. Wouldnt be long as my guess, as they have antagonised every nation/tribe in the Levant.

Pieces, not peace topic

While in theory your explained idea look workable, in practice it will fall like dominoes or a house of cards.

Palestinians did not want a separate state before, as they listened to bad advice from terrorists. They want nothing but the total destruction of Israel. This would not matter if there was a Republic of Narnia. Any country with Jews and other Westerners in it is fair game for terrorists. And Hamas/Hezbollah does not want peace, and the Palestinians are their pawns in a lethal chess game in which their pieces are human shields and dupes. These are the people who are the real losers here.

The best that can be hoped for now is a ceasefire. As Macbeth wrote: BOTH sides.

The war could be over tomorrow if that's what everyone wanted. Peace is waiting for them, whenever they're ready. But they can't wait too long, or else there will be nothing left of Palestine or Israel. They'll have simply exterminated each other and blasted everything into non-existence.