morality question: do sexual predators deserve to live?

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do convicted serial sexual predators deserve to live or should they be euthanised?
yes 69%  69%  [ 20 ]
no 31%  31%  [ 9 ]
Total votes : 29

Abangyarudo
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02 Jan 2009, 9:35 pm

MissConstrue wrote:
I hate it when people compare predators to killers because I sort of look at it as the same thing only that person will live and be emotionally damaged for the rest of their lives.

Do I believe they should be executed?

I don't believe in any form of capital punishment not even for murders as it doesn't bring the victims back. The U.S. is practically the only western country that still practices capital punishment.

I think it's pretty sad that we justify this over murder. I knew one girl who I grew up with that got molested by an older guy when she was 13 years old. She wasn't like the same person I knew. Last I heard about her was when she got arrested for illegal drug possession.


not exactly people move on. Will they always have that awful experience? yea but at the same time it doesn't emotionally disable them if they don't let it. The people most affected are the people who just hold on to it and choose not to let it go in the irrational fear that it somehow validates what the other person did to them.



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02 Jan 2009, 10:40 pm

I think they should get locked up forever. Just like murderers. If you kill them, you're giving them the easy way out. Plus, that's almost as bad.


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Last edited by SeizeTheDay on 02 Jan 2009, 10:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Aurore
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02 Jan 2009, 10:40 pm

Abangyarudo wrote:
not exactly people move on. Will they always have that awful experience? yea but at the same time it doesn't emotionally disable them if they don't let it. The people most affected are the people who just hold on to it and choose not to let it go in the irrational fear that it somehow validates what the other person did to them.


Excuse me? Have you ever been violently raped? Because if you haven't, you better f*cking rethink that entire paragraph. PTSD's not a joke and it isn't a sign of weakness. The stress that occurs during the traumatic event actually alters the functioning and structure of your brain, primarily the hippocampus and medial prefrontal cortex. It's not that we're spiteful; when you have a flashback, you're actually psychologically and physiologically reliving the experience over and over again. When you're not having flashbacks, the stress hormones in your system lead to a near perpetual state of anxiety and hypervigilance.

Sorry, I just couldn't let that go. It's taken me four years of doing all I can to get over something deep in my past, I don't want to hear that I'm just being a b*tch and not trying hard enough.

Onto the question:

On one hand - my grandfather was a child molester; my mother has somehow forgiven him for what he did, and that's the only way I can. I'd like to think he's reformed now, since it's been thirty years since he did any such thing.

At the same time...it would be highly tempting to have the individual who hurt me euthanized. But if that happened, I would feel guilty about having him killed, and I would probably feel worse.

It's definitely not my right to judge what to do to sexual predators, too much emotion goes into my opinions on the subject.

EDIT: Sorry Abangyarudo - I hope you understand I'm a little touchy about the subject.


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Abangyarudo
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02 Jan 2009, 11:04 pm

Aurore wrote:
Abangyarudo wrote:
not exactly people move on. Will they always have that awful experience? yea but at the same time it doesn't emotionally disable them if they don't let it. The people most affected are the people who just hold on to it and choose not to let it go in the irrational fear that it somehow validates what the other person did to them.


Excuse me? Have you ever been violently raped? Because if you haven't, you better f*cking rethink that entire paragraph. PTSD's not a joke and it isn't a sign of weakness. The stress that occurs during the traumatic event actually alters the functioning and structure of your brain, primarily the hippocampus and medial prefrontal cortex. It's not that we're spiteful; when you have a flashback, you're actually psychologically and physiologically reliving the experience over and over again. When you're not having flashbacks, the stress hormones in your system lead to a near perpetual state of anxiety and hypervigilance.


not a problem I know many people who are raped its a sad fact. I know from what they tell me and of course you could just say they were just talking nonsense but I don't think they would lie as I know about what happened to them. Because I'm a person who people lean on I know more about people then the average person does its also why women latch on to me. Now I never said it was a sign of weakness and it takes alot of time but its not an emotionally disabling thing for life. It will always be there but it does not disable people from leading normal lives (as much as normal can be as far as life goes) including marriage, career success, and having a family.

People move on after traumatic experiences as best they can. Some fail some succeed but either way disabling would mean you wouldn't be able to have a normal life. Some women I know have had things happen to them and had to make life altering decisions in that timeframe. One friend I had a similar experience to yours and she handled it differently she disowned most of her family. When I had my apartment she stayed with me (as friends) eventually she found a guy she liked and moved on with him. They are happy thats all that matters to me. Now all that happened within a year while she still continued a highly academic program in college (her particular needs to stay in that program were pure a's even a few A-'s may put her out of the program.

The fact she did all this is a testament to her strength and resolve not to let it destroy her life. She knows that I'm around even though I moved to another state. She was raped years ago before the molestation and yet she still overachieves. Shes one of my best friends in that way because we both share a common purpose. If you still want to curse and act vulgar afterwards thats up to you but atleast lets try not to put words in my mouth.



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02 Jan 2009, 11:17 pm

Sorry for snapping at you, dude. I think I just misunderstood what you were saying.


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Abangyarudo
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02 Jan 2009, 11:35 pm

Aurore wrote:
Sorry for snapping at you, dude. I think I just misunderstood what you were saying.


not a problem. Maybe its just my use of language but alot of people misunderstand me on this topic atleast its just that I have different understanding of certain words while you might think disabling is a rather passive term for that moment to me disabling means in the sense of just being completely disabled and my understanding of the quoted post was that it was emotionally damaging for life.

While it is a thing that sticks with people for their own lives its a traumatic event that like most are dealt with personally but doesn't damage them as much as to interfere with their lives though in the short term it can affect their relationships. I had exs who I had to be very careful with because of the confusion they felt due to those experiences (they wanted certain things done which reminded them of those experiences).

While I am saying that it doesn't interfere with their lives it doesn't mean that they don't go through extrodinary pain. Thankfully people who put their minds to it do incredible things. The emotional ability to attach and love is still there and somehow they manage to separate it from affecting those relationships. I'm trying to get away from the image of women being crippled by one experience and their lives being defined by that one moment personally since my experience with very strong women that they just are able to put that behind them.

I think since this is an emotionally charged topic its common that these misunderstandings will happen. Especially for those that have had experiences with it they strike out due to the shame they feel. I'm not quite sure where that shame comes from I don't know much about the emotional feelings that go into it (since I have alot of problems analyzing my own emotions thats also why your statements didn't affect me in that fashion merely that you went a very different direction then I imagined the comment being taken, it was more of an annoyance). I assume its because of the contradiction of feelings present.

Anyway I hope that clarifies my opinion on it.



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03 Jan 2009, 12:44 am

I'm against the death penalty, but it's not because I'm nice. It's because I think death's too good for sex offenders. They should be kept in dark little holes for the rest of their lives and fed only enough gruel to keep them alive.



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03 Jan 2009, 1:38 am

I vote for turning them into drooling vegetables through "botched" brain surgery.


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03 Jan 2009, 1:06 pm

Aurore wrote:
Abangyarudo wrote:
not exactly people move on. Will they always have that awful experience? yea but at the same time it doesn't emotionally disable them if they don't let it. The people most affected are the people who just hold on to it and choose not to let it go in the irrational fear that it somehow validates what the other person did to them.


Excuse me? Have you ever been violently raped? Because if you haven't, you better f*cking rethink that entire paragraph. PTSD's not a joke and it isn't a sign of weakness. The stress that occurs during the traumatic event actually alters the functioning and structure of your brain, primarily the hippocampus and medial prefrontal cortex. It's not that we're spiteful; when you have a flashback, you're actually psychologically and physiologically reliving the experience over and over again. When you're not having flashbacks, the stress hormones in your system lead to a near perpetual state of anxiety and hypervigilance.

Sorry, I just couldn't let that go. It's taken me four years of doing all I can to get over something deep in my past, I don't want to hear that I'm just being a b*tch and not trying hard enough.



thank you. someone needed to say this. i've been accused on other posts of holding grudges, intentionally retaining a "victim mentality", and being a man-hater, for saying things like this. so thank you for being brave enough to say it. maybe someday they will hear.



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03 Jan 2009, 1:10 pm

^^I also agree with Aurore on this issue.


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Abangyarudo
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03 Jan 2009, 1:12 pm

starvingartist wrote:
Aurore wrote:
Abangyarudo wrote:
not exactly people move on. Will they always have that awful experience? yea but at the same time it doesn't emotionally disable them if they don't let it. The people most affected are the people who just hold on to it and choose not to let it go in the irrational fear that it somehow validates what the other person did to them.


Excuse me? Have you ever been violently raped? Because if you haven't, you better f*cking rethink that entire paragraph. PTSD's not a joke and it isn't a sign of weakness. The stress that occurs during the traumatic event actually alters the functioning and structure of your brain, primarily the hippocampus and medial prefrontal cortex. It's not that we're spiteful; when you have a flashback, you're actually psychologically and physiologically reliving the experience over and over again. When you're not having flashbacks, the stress hormones in your system lead to a near perpetual state of anxiety and hypervigilance.

Sorry, I just couldn't let that go. It's taken me four years of doing all I can to get over something deep in my past, I don't want to hear that I'm just being a b*tch and not trying hard enough.



thank you. someone needed to say this. i've been accused on other posts of holding grudges, intentionally retaining a "victim mentality", and being a man-hater, for saying things like this. so thank you for being brave enough to say it. maybe someday they will hear.


she overreacted to her intrepretation she didn't personally insult me like you have to me and others in that other thread. So in effect she has shown alot more maturity in her interaction whether or not she agrees with what I have said. You generalize that all men or boys as you call them are the same comparing them with the person who raped you which is a grave insult is what got you the label of manhater. Furthermore your inability to let it go and to attack anybody who you don't feel caters to your emotional needs gave you the label of victim mentality.

EDIT: and to add note she also apologized to me which is a very stand up thing to do. That alone shows alot of strength in character and conviction.

MissConstrue wrote:
^^I also agree with Aurore on this issue.


While I agree its a disorder the intrepretation was based on what I meant by emotionally disabling them. There are people who in effect move on (doesn't mean all the scars are healed) but don't let it a) effect their progression in all aspects of life and b) generalize and blame others for this. Its two different ways of handling it to be disabled in my mind means unable to function where like most people who had traumatic experiences happen to them they move on and work towards their goals. Plus PSTD as with most psychological illnesses is rather broadly applied to people. The difference that I have seen is how they handle it and as that is personal what happens to people is also personal. That does not mean they cannot move on with their lives and similarly doesn't mean that some people will take much longer (or never in some cases_ to move on with theirs.



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03 Jan 2009, 1:31 pm

It depends on the severity of abuse and for how long. For instance, the younger the child, the worst the outcome. Most people who have been seriously abused by a sexual predator as children committ suicide as adults. These adults seldom act out and are loners in society. Sexual abuse trauma can be akin to that of the trauma solidiers experience from war and PTSD as severe. It also depends to on how the person is treated and the support they get. Alot of people are made secondary victims through people attitudes.



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03 Jan 2009, 1:42 pm

BellaDonna wrote:
It depends on the severity of abuse and for how long. For instance, the younger the child, the worst the outcome. Most people who have been seriously abused by a sexual predator as children committ suicide as adults. These adults seldom act out and are loners in society. Sexual abuse trauma can be akin to that of the trauma solidiers experience from war and PTSD as severe. It also depends to on how the person is treated and the support they get. Alot of people are made secondary victims through people attitudes.


agreed on some points. It depends I told a story about a girl I know not sure if it was this thread or the other one and quite frankly its highly individual. As far as suicide people commit suicide all the time not to seem as if I'm making light of it but going that far shows some inbalance that needs to be worked on (I know that personally as I tried to take my life 3 times). Again things are different for different people some will need alot of support some won't it's just how it is.

I'm not sitting here saying "oh you all should just grow up" what I am saying is alot of people hold on to the anger and pain and make it their life. They walk around as a victim in everything. Those people that effectively make that moment the definition of their life and their experiences. For instance Starvingartist told in another thread how she felt all men are the same and hormonely based and don't want to be challenged from a woman as far as intellectually in that she stated that she is held back because of that.

Personally I've had many varied experiences from depression to girls doing really rotten stuff to me. I'm sure I'm not alone in that regard at the same time if I said all women are <insert insult here> because my ex strung me along thinking that she miscarried with my baby that would be wrong and that would be applying a victim mentality. With those shades coloring every aspect of my life would further stop me from progressing and all areas of my life would be destroyed. In that moment I would make that one particular moment, motivation, idea , or view the definition of myself. That is what is really harmful or disabling as such people would not be around me and act negatively towards me due to this.

So thats my view on the current situation and thats why someone can choose to let it disable them or they can move on and separate it from their lives. That choice is ultimately up to them.



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03 Jan 2009, 1:55 pm

Yes some people do hold onto a victim mentality in all area's of life. However, PTSD goes beyond that especially if it is chronic. It is a mental illness and a person has no control over it. It even affects a person physically. Their body will break down. At times they will be unable to move or even to walk.
So with a bad attitude or not these people are inflicted for life. Positive thinking is important but it has little to do with it.



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03 Jan 2009, 2:05 pm

BellaDonna wrote:
Yes some people do hold onto a victim mentality in all area's of life. However, PTSD goes beyond that especially if it is chronic. It is a mental illness and a person has no control over it. It even effects a person physically. Thier body will break down. At times they will be unable to move or even to walk.
So with a bad attitude or not these people are inflicted for life. Positive thinking is important but it has little to do with it.


Even with physical illnesses it is shown that a postive thinking has alot to do with it. So I have to dissagree on that note as some people have come back from pretty amazing stuff with postive thinking and a determination not to let something beat them. Its the same reason I have AS and depression and noone knows theres no signs due to the fact that I don't let things defeat me. Similarly the girl I mentioned was diagnosed with the same disorder but in the end shes moved on and happy.

Its the same reason why there is some people who benefit long term from "faith healers" they believe in them so much that they reinforce their body to heal itself. Its the same in other areas if people find the strength within themself to move past it they will. I'm not saying it'll be "oh I'm enlightened now I'm free" its gonig to take alot of hard work and dedication to working out the details of your "recovery" (Sorry can't think of a better term). It took me 3 years to reprogram my thinking from being depressed.

I was diagnosed with the most severe type of depression that resists treatment. I tried all the
different forms of treatment, therapy, medication, etc etc. In the end I had to move past it personally so regardless of any help a person receives they have to have the will to pressure through it. Thats not discounting that some receive positive benefits from things like therapy, medication, etc but it does mean that without that drive any form of recovery is impossible.



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03 Jan 2009, 2:13 pm

I disagree in the context that I have known people with chronic PTSD. They have had the right attitude and seeked intensive thearpy and it has done little to nothing to help them to get over their trauma and PTSD. They have been of the strongest willed people I've known. No matter how hard they try some traumas are so damaging that a person cannot ever get over them. It kills a person inside and they are never the same again. That is heart breaking but it is a fact.