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Sir_Beefy
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02 Jan 2009, 8:11 pm

Cheating is whatever you want it to mean. I heard one girl say guns are cheating when it comes to war. Surely most people don't think that. So if this guy doesn't think its cheating unless its marriage, then so be it. that's what he thinks. Sure, he kind of has a point, but only in the legal sense. Since he isn't looking for a commitment, then cheating is fair game to him. Whatever. Not everybody wants commitment.


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ike
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02 Jan 2009, 8:27 pm

Fnord wrote:
NeantHumain wrote:
If you are talking to "open relationships," both parties agree upfront, so it's a different scenario entirely.

Open Relationship == No commitment == No marriage.


That's not what I understood to be an "open relationship" by those who practice them. Most of the people I've met who practice them (including my current SO) have much more thoroughly and explicitly defined boundaries in their relationships than are generally defined in monogamous relationships. They agree to things like time limits (no sex within x weeks of meeting a new person), rights of refusal and especially to how exactly they define safe sex. I've heard of a few particularly stringent groups in which even open-mouthed kissing was not allowed outside the group by formal agreement. They may or may not include marriage, but to say that open relationships are equivalent to a lack of commitment is patently false. There are some cases in which that is true, but they are only a subset of the whole.


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ike
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02 Jan 2009, 8:29 pm

To the OP I recommend this post:
http://www.wrongplanet.net/postp1945148.html#1945610


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garyww
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02 Jan 2009, 8:31 pm

Beefy, if you seeing one girl and screwing another one it's cheating on the first one and vice versa when you're having sex with the first one. Committment is not in play. We can extend this exponentially to hundreds of relationships. When you're with one then you're not with another. Thats math, not human nature.


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graemephillips
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03 Jan 2009, 1:08 am

Fnord wrote:
JohnHopkins wrote:
Strictly speaking, any opinion is valid.

I've never met anyone else who has the same opinion as you, and it boggles my mind that you've managed to get married to someone if you've lived your whole life screwing whoever you want at any time. How exactly does one reach the point of this commitment when you spend half of your time sleeping with other people? And even if I was to buy into this philosophy, you'd struggle to find anyone else who did.

:roll:

This reads like much of the fundamentalist morality propaganda they hand out at those "Celibacy Pledge Parties" the churches have around here. Not that it's worth much. The 'failure' rate is about the same for those who take the Celibacy Pledge as for those who don't.

And, for the record, your statement is inaccurate. I have not 'screwed' whoever I wanted at any time; some of them simply were not interested at the time, so I might have had to settle for second- or third- level choices.

There are many of us who feel the same way about 'cheating' - most of us are still single, and at least try to have social lives away from blogging, posting, studying, and working. If 'cheating' on a boyfriend or girlfriend is a crime, then it is a crime of opportunity; and there is a lot of opportunity out there! There is no struggle to find anyone else who shares this philosophy; you just have to know where to look!

How does one reach the level of commitment I'm enjoying now? Choice, kid. You make the choice to commit - especially once you find someone who makes a monogamous relationship worth the effort.


I agree. It is disappointing that in the USA, Christians have at least as high a divorce rate as the rest of the population. I accept that we all fall short of the glory of God and so we will never be perfect, but at the same time, Christians have to be a shining light to the rest of the world. As Christians, our righteousness MUST exceed that of non-Christians, because then non-Christians then feel they have cause to say, "Well, their religion isn't making any difference to them, so why should I bother following it?"



soljaboi51
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03 Jan 2009, 3:57 am

Although im against cheating, some men enjoy the variety of different women and it boosts their ego.



Space
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03 Jan 2009, 4:04 am

I would never cheat. I could not do it, it's just too low.



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03 Jan 2009, 7:06 am

I wouldn't cheat and never have simply because it's against my morals. Do unto others as you would have done unto you. If I am in a monogamous relationship then I would expect that my partner wouldn't cheat on me and I wouldn't cheat on them. Of course there are all sorts of reasons that people do cheat on each other. Like anything people can be selfish but I think it comes down to self-discipline. There have been many times where I have been tempted but so far I've managed to resist. If you're not happy in a relationship and you feel like you are going to cheat then why don't you just break up with the person? Most often it comes down to selfishness and cowardliness but then we are all human.


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kaytie
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03 Jan 2009, 7:11 am

it's not fair to generalize about men. but i
think 'coz of human nature there'll never be a
man who will be100% non-cheater unless he's lacking
in some aspect which invariably makes it improbable for
him to cheat. idk if it makes sense, but if a man is able
and capable, despite whatever, he'll surely cheat.
just my opinion.



JohnHopkins
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03 Jan 2009, 7:52 am

Fnord wrote:
How does one reach the level of commitment I'm enjoying now? Choice, kid.


Oh f**k this, I'm deleting everything else I've written. If you're going to roll your eyes at me and call me 'kid' like I'm some sort of simpleton, then I'm not going to bother trying to have a reasonable discussion with you.



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03 Jan 2009, 11:23 am

kaytie wrote:
it's not fair to generalize about men. but i
think 'coz of human nature there'll never be a
man who will be100% non-cheater unless he's lacking
in some aspect which invariably makes it improbable for
him to cheat. idk if it makes sense, but if a man is able
and capable, despite whatever, he'll surely cheat.
just my opinion.


How come I've never cheated then? I've had plenty of opportunity? I'll tell you why - Willpower and Morals


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LePetitPrince
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03 Jan 2009, 11:26 am

Quote:
Morality is a religious concept, and therefore has no relevancy with me.


Wrong, you are making the mistake by assuming that religion is the source of human morality, It isn't. Human rights for instance have nothing to do with religion.



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03 Jan 2009, 3:44 pm

'Cheating' is a word I see getting thrown around all over the place when it comes to polyamory or promiscuity within what is assumed by one partner to be a monogamous pairing, and just semantically, I don't like it.

However, from an emotional standpoint, sexually roaming while giving an impression that there is committed monogamy is opportunistic 'dirty play'. If the other person is trying very hard to reach a goal of a fully committed long term relationship and their chosen mate presents a ruse, that's very likely to be manipulative. Some people do this to keep one stable option available for themselves. I guess in the bigger biological picture it's had its time and place, and still does. But when it's concerning the emotional health and stability of another person, as a practice it comes under fire.

If you commit, you have a non-verbal contract. Sure, you can break it, along with the trust of your partner. But why? Why hurt them when you could simply state from the get-go that your intentions are to not be stably, sexually monogamous? I think it would take blatant disregard for the other person's emotions to trick them in the way I've stated.

In my own value-based opinion, it's disgusting. Empathically, I could never do that to someone else, even if I was vindictive (and I've had opportunities). I state how I feel and my intentions so as to avoid unnecessary pain by the other person.

I am in a fully committed relationship with a more or less non-verbal pact that we do not screw around with others. I'm not married. Marriage is only a legal contract and a way for us to co-exist in society as a legally recognized; why would it make any difference in our personal commitment to each other thus? Commitment is an arbitrary concept, and either marriage or non-marriage contracts exist in the mind, and the power of either is subjective.

LePetitPrince wrote:
Quote:
Morality is a religious concept, and therefore has no relevancy with me.


Wrong, you are making the mistake by assuming that religion is the source of human morality, It isn't. Human rights for instance have nothing to do with religion.


I agree with this.



MR_BOGAN
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03 Jan 2009, 4:11 pm

kaytie wrote:
it's not fair to generalize about men. but i
think 'coz of human nature there'll never be a
man who will be100% non-cheater unless he's lacking
in some aspect which invariably makes it improbable for
him to cheat. idk if it makes sense, but if a man is able
and capable, despite whatever, he'll surely cheat.
just my opinion.


Well don't generalize then. :roll: