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otherman
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05 Jan 2009, 10:30 pm

Kangoogle wrote:
I think its rather hypocritical of you to lecture me on confidence issues when you are scared to try even something minor which is new.


You seem to make numerous statements like this. What evidence do you have that I am "scared"? It sounds like according to you, just because someone doesn't want to do something, means they are scared?



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05 Jan 2009, 10:33 pm

Careful, guys! This is the Haven!

Don't make the same mistake I did, and turn this thread into a battlefield.


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Kangoogle
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05 Jan 2009, 10:33 pm

otherman wrote:
Kangoogle wrote:
otherman wrote:
Kangoogle wrote:
You claim to be open-minded. How about showing it and trying alcohol properly? Cider is the best one. As for spirits drinking - I rarely do so, unless I have to get drunk quickly (and even then I have a lot of mixer to go with it)


Are you saying that in order to disagree with something others do, I need to have done it myself? So, if I want to disagree with people who use meth, I clearly need to have tried meth before... right?

To actually understand it, you really need to try it - unless you don't want to understand it I guess. Understanding and disagreeing are different things.


You never really answered my question here. You're also making the assumption that I haven't tried alcohol, which would be incorrect.

You have to (a) try it for a period of time (b) with an open mind and (c) live the lifestyle that goes with it to truely understand it.
Quote:
Kangoogle wrote:
My suspicion here is that you are against it because you (a) want something extra to blame for your social shortcomings and (b) have control issues.


Well, you have little evidence that I have "social shortcomings". Since I'm pretty happy with my current social state and don't seem to have problems with other people, I don't know what "social shortcomings" you're talking about. I was able to ask out my girlfriend just fine without alcohol. Anything else I am missing?

What are you really doing on a site like this then? Apart from to issue lectures on lack of confidence in social situations?
Quote:
And I have control issues because I am trying to understand why people do something? That's interesting... I suppose you think I should just "go with the flow" on everything eh?

No - its the fact you can't stand people doing it. Unless you are now going to turn around and tell me all this was because you don't like the smell of beer, its about the loss of control (or lack of inhibitions) that people have after drinking some.



Kangoogle
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05 Jan 2009, 10:35 pm

Fnord wrote:
Careful, guys! This is the Haven!

Don't make the same mistake I did, and turn this thread into a battlefield.

What is this "Haven" place? Just for the uninitiated like myself? I just clicked on the thread from the front page.



Kangoogle
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05 Jan 2009, 10:40 pm

otherman wrote:
Kangoogle wrote:
I think its rather hypocritical of you to lecture me on confidence issues when you are scared to try even something minor which is new.


You seem to make numerous statements like this. What evidence do you have that I am "scared"? It sounds like according to you, just because someone doesn't want to do something, means they are scared?

You are obsessed with coming up with reasons for people not to drink. To me this suggests you have some real problems with it - be honest and come out with them rather than pretending you are interested in understanding the logic behind it.



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05 Jan 2009, 10:44 pm

There is a difference between being scared of trying something and seeing no good reason to try it.


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otherman
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05 Jan 2009, 10:46 pm

Kangoogle wrote:
otherman wrote:
Kangoogle wrote:
otherman wrote:
Kangoogle wrote:
You claim to be open-minded. How about showing it and trying alcohol properly? Cider is the best one. As for spirits drinking - I rarely do so, unless I have to get drunk quickly (and even then I have a lot of mixer to go with it)


Are you saying that in order to disagree with something others do, I need to have done it myself? So, if I want to disagree with people who use meth, I clearly need to have tried meth before... right?

To actually understand it, you really need to try it - unless you don't want to understand it I guess. Understanding and disagreeing are different things.


You never really answered my question here. You're also making the assumption that I haven't tried alcohol, which would be incorrect.

You have to (a) try it for a period of time (b) with an open mind and (c) live the lifestyle that goes with it to truely understand it.


Ah, so consuming alcohol is a complex lifestyle change? Wow, am I joining a cult here?

Kangoogle wrote:
Quote:
Kangoogle wrote:
My suspicion here is that you are against it because you (a) want something extra to blame for your social shortcomings and (b) have control issues.


Well, you have little evidence that I have "social shortcomings". Since I'm pretty happy with my current social state and don't seem to have problems with other people, I don't know what "social shortcomings" you're talking about. I was able to ask out my girlfriend just fine without alcohol. Anything else I am missing?

What are you really doing on a site like this then? Apart from to issue lectures on lack of confidence in social situations?


I've found that people with AS often have interesting perspectives on these types of "social scenarios". Since I have found some people with AS to be very logical I thought it would be interesting to see other peoples viewpoints.

Kangoogle wrote:
Quote:
And I have control issues because I am trying to understand why people do something? That's interesting... I suppose you think I should just "go with the flow" on everything eh?

No - its the fact you can't stand people doing it. Unless you are now going to turn around and tell me all this was because you don't like the smell of beer, its about the loss of control (or lack of inhibitions) that people have after drinking some.


I think if that was true, I would be saying it should be made illegal. I don't have any problems with people doing it -- just as I don't have problems with people who smoke weed or sniff glue. Their choices -- honestly, it doesn't bother me. I just don't hang out with them while they are doing these types of activities. I'm just interested in understanding why they decide to.



Last edited by otherman on 05 Jan 2009, 10:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

otherman
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05 Jan 2009, 10:50 pm

Kangoogle wrote:
otherman wrote:
Kangoogle wrote:
I think its rather hypocritical of you to lecture me on confidence issues when you are scared to try even something minor which is new.


You seem to make numerous statements like this. What evidence do you have that I am "scared"? It sounds like according to you, just because someone doesn't want to do something, means they are scared?

You are obsessed with coming up with reasons for people not to drink. To me this suggests you have some real problems with it - be honest and come out with them rather than pretending you are interested in understanding the logic behind it.


No, I really am interested in understanding the logic behind it. This is apparently one of the reasons why its believed I have HFA to begin with -- I do this with almost everything. Drinking alcohol is just so commonplace though, I figured I should go ask it on an internet forum so I could get a broader scope of opinion.

Also, I'm not developing reasons for people to "not drink". Those reasons have already been developed for me. I don't need to bother.

Vince wrote:
There is a difference between being scared of trying something and seeing no good reason to try it.


I would agree with this. I don't see any reason to try alcohol. You haven't provided me with any other then telling me that I need to try it in order to understand it.



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05 Jan 2009, 10:53 pm

Kangoogle wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Careful, guys! This is the Haven! Don't make the same mistake I did, and turn this thread into a battlefield.

What is this "Haven" place? Just for the uninitiated like myself? I just clicked on the thread from the front page.

"The Haven" is a forum where people can start threads to express their feelings, issues, and troubles without fear of ridicule or other personal attack. I've had to be reminded a couple of times of this purpose and intent. Now I'm passing the reminder along.


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otherman
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05 Jan 2009, 10:55 pm

Fnord wrote:
Kangoogle wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Careful, guys! This is the Haven! Don't make the same mistake I did, and turn this thread into a battlefield.

What is this "Haven" place? Just for the uninitiated like myself? I just clicked on the thread from the front page.

"The Haven" is a forum where people can start threads to express their feelings, issues, and troubles without fear of ridicule or other personal attack. I've had to be reminded a couple of times of this purpose and intent. Now I'm passing the reminder along.


It appears I may have started this thread in the wrong location if I was looking for a comprehensive discussion.

My apologizes to any mods.



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05 Jan 2009, 11:07 pm

It isn't really logical. There is a self destructive urge. The first time I drank was the result of a lot of angst and despair(the only other time was a toast at my brother's wedding).

People say life is too short...
If you think about things, almost everything we work for is human happiness in one form or another. Alcohol is just an easy way to achieve happiness.
If you don't think it through (looking at risks like dependancy and the resulting unhappiness) then it makes sense.


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Kangoogle
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05 Jan 2009, 11:16 pm

otherman wrote:
Kangoogle wrote:
otherman wrote:
Kangoogle wrote:
otherman wrote:
Kangoogle wrote:
You claim to be open-minded. How about showing it and trying alcohol properly? Cider is the best one. As for spirits drinking - I rarely do so, unless I have to get drunk quickly (and even then I have a lot of mixer to go with it)


Are you saying that in order to disagree with something others do, I need to have done it myself? So, if I want to disagree with people who use meth, I clearly need to have tried meth before... right?

To actually understand it, you really need to try it - unless you don't want to understand it I guess. Understanding and disagreeing are different things.


You never really answered my question here. You're also making the assumption that I haven't tried alcohol, which would be incorrect.

You have to (a) try it for a period of time (b) with an open mind and (c) live the lifestyle that goes with it to truely understand it.


Ah, so consuming alcohol is a complex lifestyle change? Wow, am I joining a cult here?

It is in the UK - our social life pretty much revolves around pubs and clubs. Especially as a student.
Quote:
Kangoogle wrote:
Quote:
Kangoogle wrote:
My suspicion here is that you are against it because you (a) want something extra to blame for your social shortcomings and (b) have control issues.


Well, you have little evidence that I have "social shortcomings". Since I'm pretty happy with my current social state and don't seem to have problems with other people, I don't know what "social shortcomings" you're talking about. I was able to ask out my girlfriend just fine without alcohol. Anything else I am missing?

What are you really doing on a site like this then? Apart from to issue lectures on lack of confidence in social situations?


I've found that people with AS often have interesting perspectives on these types of "social scenarios". Since I have found some people with AS to be very logical I thought it would be interesting to see other peoples viewpoints.

Logic is based upon axioms - we often have a different set, especially in social cases.
Quote:
Kangoogle wrote:
Quote:
And I have control issues because I am trying to understand why people do something? That's interesting... I suppose you think I should just "go with the flow" on everything eh?

No - its the fact you can't stand people doing it. Unless you are now going to turn around and tell me all this was because you don't like the smell of beer, its about the loss of control (or lack of inhibitions) that people have after drinking some.


I think if that was true, I would be saying it should be made illegal. I don't have any problems with people doing it -- just as I don't have problems with people who smoke weed or sniff glue. Their choices -- honestly, it doesn't bother me. I just don't hang out with them while they are doing these types of activities. I'm just interested in understanding why they decide to.

I could not imagine a social occasion that is without people drinking to be honest here, weed and glue sniffing on the other hand is very much a minority pastime. Unless you belong to a religious sect that does not drink alcohol that is - e.g. Islam.



Kangoogle
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05 Jan 2009, 11:23 pm

otherman wrote:
Kangoogle wrote:
otherman wrote:
Kangoogle wrote:
I think its rather hypocritical of you to lecture me on confidence issues when you are scared to try even something minor which is new.


You seem to make numerous statements like this. What evidence do you have that I am "scared"? It sounds like according to you, just because someone doesn't want to do something, means they are scared?

You are obsessed with coming up with reasons for people not to drink. To me this suggests you have some real problems with it - be honest and come out with them rather than pretending you are interested in understanding the logic behind it.


No, I really am interested in understanding the logic behind it. This is apparently one of the reasons why its believed I have HFA to begin with -- I do this with almost everything. Drinking alcohol is just so commonplace though, I figured I should go ask it on an internet forum so I could get a broader scope of opinion.

It is really akin to starting a thread on asking people why they have sex though - its about that commonplace. Trying to understand the logic in something is a tried and tested strategy for avoiding doing something, especially when it is this commonplace. Unless of course you of the school of thought that you are superior to everyone who drinks.
Quote:
Also, I'm not developing reasons for people to "not drink". Those reasons have already been developed for me. I don't need to bother.

Vince wrote:
There is a difference between being scared of trying something and seeing no good reason to try it.


I would agree with this. I don't see any reason to try alcohol. You haven't provided me with any other then telling me that I need to try it in order to understand it.

Well either you want to truly understand it or not really. Unless anyone has any better ideas I would suggest you spend a week or two drinking in a pub. No need to be heavy, just have a glass of wine or two.



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05 Jan 2009, 11:24 pm

Fnord wrote:
Kangoogle wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Careful, guys! This is the Haven! Don't make the same mistake I did, and turn this thread into a battlefield.

What is this "Haven" place? Just for the uninitiated like myself? I just clicked on the thread from the front page.

"The Haven" is a forum where people can start threads to express their feelings, issues, and troubles without fear of ridicule or other personal attack. I've had to be reminded a couple of times of this purpose and intent. Now I'm passing the reminder along.

I can guess a translation of that... :(



otherman
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06 Jan 2009, 12:01 am

Kangoogle wrote:
otherman wrote:
Kangoogle wrote:
otherman wrote:
Kangoogle wrote:
I think its rather hypocritical of you to lecture me on confidence issues when you are scared to try even something minor which is new.


You seem to make numerous statements like this. What evidence do you have that I am "scared"? It sounds like according to you, just because someone doesn't want to do something, means they are scared?

You are obsessed with coming up with reasons for people not to drink. To me this suggests you have some real problems with it - be honest and come out with them rather than pretending you are interested in understanding the logic behind it.


No, I really am interested in understanding the logic behind it. This is apparently one of the reasons why its believed I have HFA to begin with -- I do this with almost everything. Drinking alcohol is just so commonplace though, I figured I should go ask it on an internet forum so I could get a broader scope of opinion.

It is really akin to starting a thread on asking people why they have sex though - its about that commonplace. Trying to understand the logic in something is a tried and tested strategy for avoiding doing something, especially when it is this commonplace. Unless of course you of the school of thought that you are superior to everyone who drinks.


Yes. That's exactly why I had to consider sex and even masturbation when I was writing this paper on alcohol to ensure that conflicts didn't exist. There are some similarities -- people do have sex to "feel good" and people also drink alcohol to "feel good". It took a few hours, but I developed an argument which allowed me to keep the two separated by looking at the differences between the two (including understanding hormones and the circumstances under which sex occur). There are of course some circumstances when I think people's "reasons" for having sex are ridiculous -- such as when a girl simply wants to loose her virginity and is willing to do it with almost any guy. Anyways, this is rather off topic, but as I said, I argue with myself about almost everything. I look at every aspect, every reason, every circumstance I can dream up.

Anyways, according to what you've said here, I shouldn't bother thinking about why people drink, simply because so many people do. IE, "the majority" does it, so why even bother reviewing it? Do you really believe that? Do you recognize that without self review society would most likely never move forward? Concepts such as slavery would probably still exist within the United States?

Why do you seem so angry that I am trying to understand peoples reasoning? I mean, all of these people must have great reasons to drink right? None of them have been influenced by peer pressure, the subconscious effects of their parents drinking habits, etc?

Here's a real good question to you -- why do you think some people "become" alcoholics? What is your personal definition of an alcoholic?

And of course, you attempt to make the assertion that I must think I'm on a "high horse" if I don't agree with the majority. What a bunch of bulls***. Just because I decide to question their actions does not mean I think I am better then them. Lets take a look at an example through history: http://www.historic-uk.com/cultureuk/witches.htm

"There were other tests for witches. Mary Sutton of Bedford was put to the swimming test. With her thumbs tied to opposite big toes she was flung into the river. If she floated she was guilty, if she sank, innocent. Poor Mary floated!"

The "majority" was stupid enough to believe in these types of tests during the wonderful time period when everyone believed in witches. The "majority" was also stupid enough to elect George W. Bush president for 8 years in the United States. I have ZERO confidence in the majority. That doesn't mean I think I am "better" then the majority. But I also don't automatically "go with the flow" as you seem to suggest I should here.



Last edited by otherman on 06 Jan 2009, 12:12 am, edited 1 time in total.