Renouncing marriage and children

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pezar
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13 Jan 2009, 7:58 pm

I don't want children. My family, on both sides, has so many awful disorders-AS, bipolar, tendency towards obesity and diabetes and addictive behavior, psychosis-that I don't think it would be fair to the child. Also, I am not the fatherly type, and never had a real fatherly role model, so I wouldn't know how to properly raise a kid who likely would have special needs. I also have a hard time with love, I really don't love anybody in a deep way except maybe my mother. I would have an extremely difficult time maintaining love over the long term with an unrelated person of the opposite sex, we'd end up as business partners more than husband and wife. If the woman was NT, she would forever be looking for love elsewhere since I wouldn't be able to love her. That's a recipe for a failed marriage. My mom is very nurturing, and she wants a grandchild desperately, and refuses to come to terms with the fact that she won't get one.



Kilroy
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13 Jan 2009, 8:02 pm

I don't want kids-though my dad seems to think because he wants grandkids I'll have kids
or I'll change my mind
its really funny



v0lume
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13 Jan 2009, 8:08 pm

t0 wrote:
v0lume wrote:
I just don't want my asperger genes to be passed for another generation.


I think this is an unfortunate viewpoint. Life is hard, NT or AS. Being AS doesn't make your genes bad or substandard. Billions of stupid/irresponsible persons have bred over the centuries and no one is telling them to stop. You can't fix AS any more than you can fix stupid...


My point is that what if she has basically perfect genes and I end up ruining them with aspergers? That just wouldn't be fair, and in the end I would just feel guilty about the situation. Also I wouldn't want my kid to go through the same things I did.



ToadOfSteel
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13 Jan 2009, 8:10 pm

v0lume wrote:
My point is that what if she has basically perfect genes and I end up ruining them with aspergers? That just wouldn't be fair, and in the end I would just feel guilty about the situation. Also I wouldn't want my kid to go through the same things I did.


You can't "ruin" anyone with aspergers... It would be more unfair to the child to never have existed at all...

Also, as a side note, the awareness of AS and the facilities for handling it are far more established than they were when we were kids...



ToadOfSteel
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13 Jan 2009, 8:18 pm

moonlightwhisp wrote:
I'm not saying that they're horrible things that never should be passed on. 99% of the time, I'm glad for my AS because it gives me advantages that most people don't have. I've just never imagined myself having children and I've never been the mothering type. My younger sister was born 5 years after me and growing up with her, I never really felt the need to look after her or nurture her, which I feel wretched for. I wish I could feel something towards children because I know I'm supposed to. I just don't and I don't think that's a great treat for a mother to have. That, and the whole pregnancy/childbirth process sounds like pure torture. 8O


You can't really look to how one would treat siblings to see how one would treat their children... many siblings never get along well, but each raise children just fine...

Also, as Butterflair said, eventually there may come a time when a mothering instinct will kick in... so don't discount the notion entirely. I know that at this point in my life, I would make a terrible father, both in the fact that I'm not economically stable and in the fact that I don't connect that well with kids...

I do eventually want to have kids, and I know that, some day in the future, I may be better prepared, psychologically and economically, for the work involved... However, the issue that I am completely unable to even find a girlfriend, let alone a mate, will pretty much prevent me from ever having kids (even from adopting, as adoptions usually go to couples anyway...)



v0lume
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13 Jan 2009, 8:23 pm

Maybe in England, but to this day in the US if you are a child or an adult you are treated unfairly by pretty much everyone on a regular basis, there is nothing but ignorence in this country. Thats not the kind of environment I want to rase a child with aspergers in.
Actually if they were never born at all, it wouldn't be unfair or fair, in fact it would be niether. It just wouldn't matter, it's not like the kid would be like: "Awe man, I wasn't born!"

And yes, you can. Aspergers is a fault in the genetic system, wheater you want to look at it in a positive way or not. And keeping a woman from spawning virtually fault free genes is what would be unfair. All I'm saying is that I want to be responsible and not do something that will cause problems for our future, and even the future of my child who would be forced to grow up in a world that doesn't understand them or even care to try.



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13 Jan 2009, 8:42 pm

I agree with the OP's opinions on marriage and children. Not sure if I will ever get married though, as I can't stand to be around another(anxiety) for any extended period of time. I think I would feel "trapped" if I were to be married. Yes, I know that there is a possibility of having "alone time" but, I usually need days, or weeks, to myself, and I doubt there are any women willing to agree to that. So, for now I am concentrating on my anxiety issues, as it is necessary if I am ever going to make any progress in a relationship.


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graemephillips
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14 Jan 2009, 8:52 am

v0lume wrote:
I just don't want my asperger genes to be passed for another generation. If I got married to an NT then I would respectively request that she donates some of her eggs to an eggbank so they wouldn't go to waste.


I am a male with Asperger's syndrome and I intend to have children regardless of the risk of them having Asperger's syndrome too. If they do, I will raise them to think that they are just as entitled to reproduce and I will make sure they don't grow up thinking they have to settle for the first woman who has an interest in them because of perceptions that they are unlovable on account of having Asperger's syndrome. I will want them to think they are just as entitled to satisfying relationships as anyone else.

I would happily have children even if it were certain that they would be on the spectrum too. I refuse to be bound by society's ideas about what types of personality people should have.

I feel so strongly about my reproduction rights that I am a sperm donor. I have listed Asperger's syndrome as being part of a long list of conditions in my family, so I have complied with disclosure rules. I would encourage all men on the autistic spectrum to do the same if they are able.



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14 Jan 2009, 9:13 am

v0lume wrote:
t0 wrote:
v0lume wrote:
I just don't want my asperger genes to be passed for another generation.


I think this is an unfortunate viewpoint. Life is hard, NT or AS. Being AS doesn't make your genes bad or substandard. Billions of stupid/irresponsible persons have bred over the centuries and no one is telling them to stop. You can't fix AS any more than you can fix stupid...


My point is that what if she has basically perfect genes and I end up ruining them with aspergers? That just wouldn't be fair, and in the end I would just feel guilty about the situation. Also I wouldn't want my kid to go through the same things I did.


As we know from the end of the film "Some Like It Hot", "Nobody's perfect". I don't believe a person with perfect genes exists. As for Asperger's syndrome, society should expand its definition of perfection. Don't let anyone make you feel guilty for reproducing or wanting to do so on account of their narrow ideas of perfection.

If I have any sons with Asperger's syndrome, then so be it. I will raise them to not allow anyone to mess them around and feel just as entitled to reproduce and form relationships with women as any other man.

Also, Asperger's syndrome is not necessarily bad. I read an article at http://www.england.autism.org.uk/nas/js ... 64&a=13783 and I e-mailed the author to tell her that she had unintentionally highlighted a positive trait of autistic spectrum conditions. The article suggests that autistic children find the idea of participating in religious worship for the sake of keeping up appearances to be anathema. I think this is a good thing, as Jesus said in Matthew 6:1-18 that we shouldn't be like the hypocrites who pray in the synagogues just to be seen by others. If autistic children refuse to participate in rank hypocrisy like this, I view it as positive.



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14 Jan 2009, 10:35 am

My main concern isn't passing my aspie genes on to my kids, but being treated like sh*t by my wife. I've seen tons of movies, sitcoms, and other shows where the wife completely takes over her husband's life, essentially turning him into a prisoner. (Even a family show like Malcolm in the Middle has a wife like that.) And I'm sure you all heard about the stereotypical fights about money, taking out the trash, putting the toilet seat down, etc. In other words, the society is such that in marriage, the man must completely change himself to adapt to his wife's wishes. Now, WHY would I want to sign up for that voluntarily? As feminists point out, marriage used to be slavery for women. Well, now it became prison for men. Google "marriage strike" to see what I mean.



MissConstrue
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14 Jan 2009, 10:48 am

I gotta say these posts about the aspie gene disease is kinda depressing me since I have it..... :(

Does this mean that aspergers is soooo horrible that it should be termed a huge disability or disease? Besides it's not that dominant in my family given that no one has it that I'm aware of....


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ToadOfSteel
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14 Jan 2009, 11:14 am

Aspie1 wrote:
My main concern isn't passing my aspie genes on to my kids, but being treated like sh*t by my wife. I've seen tons of movies, sitcoms, and other shows where the wife completely takes over her husband's life, essentially turning him into a prisoner. (Even a family show like Malcolm in the Middle has a wife like that.) And I'm sure you all heard about the stereotypical fights about money, taking out the trash, putting the toilet seat down, etc. In other words, the society is such that in marriage, the man must completely change himself to adapt to his wife's wishes. Now, WHY would I want to sign up for that voluntarily? As feminists point out, marriage used to be slavery for women. Well, now it became prison for men. Google "marriage strike" to see what I mean.


I can prove you wrong (thus providing you with some hope in life) with one simple equation:

Real life != Sitcom...



Aspie1
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14 Jan 2009, 12:06 pm

ToadOfSteel wrote:
I can prove you wrong (thus providing you with some hope in life) with one simple equation:

Real life != Sitcom...

All jokes have an element of truth; otherwise they wouldn't be jokes, but simply nonsense. So if such scenarios find their ways into sitcoms (and some of the more serious shows), they must have some prevalence in real life. I'm not saying that all wives are evil and that all husbands are victims, but the domineering wife/whipped husband scenario must have come from somewhere. If it was something the script writers came up with, it would have been confined to one TV network due to copyright enforcement. But since you can find similar stuff on many TV networks, it has to have come from where there are no copyrights, which is real events.



Kirska
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14 Jan 2009, 12:11 pm

As I've said multiple times here, marriage does not automatically mean children.

I am married and also don't really want children of my own. I get lots of pressure from my family but oh well.


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graemephillips
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14 Jan 2009, 12:27 pm

Aspie1 wrote:
My main concern isn't passing my aspie genes on to my kids, but being treated like sh*t by my wife. I've seen tons of movies, sitcoms, and other shows where the wife completely takes over her husband's life, essentially turning him into a prisoner. (Even a family show like Malcolm in the Middle has a wife like that.) And I'm sure you all heard about the stereotypical fights about money, taking out the trash, putting the toilet seat down, etc. In other words, the society is such that in marriage, the man must completely change himself to adapt to his wife's wishes. Now, WHY would I want to sign up for that voluntarily? As feminists point out, marriage used to be slavery for women. Well, now it became prison for men. Google "marriage strike" to see what I mean.


I understand your concern, although I think the character Lois in "Malcolm in the Middle" has an authoritarian personality out of necessity. Her husband works long hours and her sons are all very naughty boys and so I believe she has to be authoritarian so that she can maintain some kind of equilibrium.

This is why I think it is important to choose a godly woman as a wife: - the scriptures maintain that the husband is the family leader and the wife obeys him. Now, before someone accuses me of being a misogynist, they also say that a man is obliged to love his wife. If a man truly loves his wife, he will never give her an order unless that order is founded in altruism and his desire to do his best by her, even if the order is unpopular with her in the short term and he will bring her back into line where necessary, because he will know that God gave these instructions as a recipe for an idyllic family life and a loving husband will not settle for anything less than an idyllic family life for his wife and children. Also, if a man is to be the leader of his family, he has to show conduct becoming of a leader and he has to take responsibility for the success or failure of his family.

I am pleased that my girlfriend is assertive, because I want her to pass on those traits to any children we have if we tie the knot and also, it will serve her well if and when she tries to create a new life for herself in the UK. However, it is perfectly possible for a woman to be assertive whilst being obedient to her husband. It is for that reason that I do not intend to tolerate the sort of nonsense from a woman that you alluded to in your posting.



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14 Jan 2009, 12:37 pm

Also consider that at this point in time it is actually looking more and more likely that autism is not a genetic defect or at least not to the extent that was suspected even a year ago. Also I would advise against unchangable surgery of any kind just in case.
I had children when I was very young but my brother, who hated kids eneded up falling in love with a lady when he was 40 and they had 2 kids and he tells me it was the best thing he'd ever done.
Everything changes with the passage of time so sometimes we have to wait to see what life brings into our range of view.


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