11 points about Israel,Lebanon and Palestinians

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Greyhound
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20 Jan 2009, 8:16 am

I see a definite Palistinian bias in the news, even from the BBC.


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23 Jan 2009, 11:28 am

LePetitPrince wrote:
1) In the Middle East it is always the Arabs who attack first and always Israel that is defending themselves. This defense is called a reprisal.


^ This one is actually true about Israel. Does that mean it hurt you to write it?

And it's backed up by logic: Why would Israel attack first? They are, by far, the most advanced and civilized country in the Middle East, so what would they need from desert dwellers whose favorite hobbies are screaming religious nonsense and blowing up themselves and their children?

LePetitPrince wrote:
2) Israel has the right to kill civilians. That is called "legitimate defense" , never terrorism.


Actually, and as everyone here knows, Israel's action are daily, nay hourly called "terrorism".
Also, define "civilians", please, and expound upon whether they include people daily firing rocket lauchers across the borders of another peoples' terroritory without provocation. This started literally on Day 1 of Israel's pullout from Gaza, and is only now getting a proportionate Israeli response.

LePetitPrince wrote:
3) When Israel kills civilians en masse, the western powers claim that it is more measured. This is called "reaction of the international community."


Israel doesn't kill civilians en masse. That's why they went into Gaza on the ground, rather than carpet bombing from the air, which would have been much easier, much more effective, and would have avoided more Israeli casualties. They went in on the ground, risking their lives more that way, in order to avoid Palestinian civilian casualties as much as possible. How about telling the Gazan terrorists to stop breaking into and commandeering their own civilians' homes after drawing Israeli fire? That is actually a great way to spare civilians.

Indeed, tell them to stop bragging about using their own elderly, children, and women as "human shields":

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0wJXf2nt4Y[/youtube]

LePetitPrince wrote:
4) The Palestinians and the Lebanese have no right to capture soldiers of Israel inside military installations with sentries and combat posts. This is called, "Kidnapping of defenseless people."


Very doubtful. Provide citation, please.

LePetitPrince wrote:
5) Israel has the right to kidnap anytime and anywhere as many Lebanese and Palestinians as they want. Currently there are more than 10 thousand, 300 of whom are children and a thousand are women. No proof of guilt is needed.


How about some proof of your ridiculous claim?

LePetitPrince wrote:
6) When the word Hezbollah is mentioned, it is compulsory in the same sentence to contain the words "supported and financed by Syria and by Iran."


I don't understand the complaint here.

LePetitPrince wrote:
7) When you mention "Israel" it is forbidden to make any mention of the words "supported and financed by the U.S."


Um, by whom is this "forbidden"? It's freely claimed all the time.
Your differing slants between claims #6 and #7 prove your bias.

LePetitPrince wrote:
8) When referring to Israel, expressions that are prohibited: "Occupied Territories," "Violations of UN resolutions," "Violations of human rights" or "Geneva Convention."


No. The terms, while untrue, have become commonly-used synonyms for Israel by the media, and hence the public.
In fact, my dad's plane ticket confirmation when traveling to Israel one time said "Occupied Territories" instead of "Israel", and this was several years before Israel gave away Gaza.

LePetitPrince wrote:
9) Both the Palestinians and the Lebanese are always "cowardly," they are hidden among the civilian population, which does not want them. If they sleep in their homes, with their families, that gives them the name of "cowards." Israel has a right to destroy with bombs and missiles the neighborhoods where they are sleeping. This is called a "precision surgical action."


Terrorists are not wrong for sleeping in their own homes with their own familes. It's when the terrorists break into other peoples' homes at gunpoint, and use them as combat bases from which to fire more shots that they're called cowardly.

If they get on a battle field (or just out away civilians), instead of hiding behind baby strollers, they'll be called soldiers instead of terrorists. :idea:

LePetitPrince wrote:
10) The Israelis speak better English, French, Spanish or Portuguese than the Arabs. Therefore they and those who support them must be interviewed more and have more opportunities than the Arabs to explain the present Rules of the Editorial Staff (from 1 to 10) to the general public. That is called "journalistic neutrality."


^ Fabricated. What else can be said?

LePetitPrince wrote:
11) All those who are not in accordance with the Rules of Writing above are "highly dangerous anti-Semitic terrorists."


Well, the quote is made up, and the sentiment is also false.
The media are very largely biased against Israel. Everyone knows that. The BBC even admitted they are.
(They don't think Israel has the right to exist. That's severe anti-Israel bias, obviously.)


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Ragtime
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23 Jan 2009, 9:13 pm

These are the pictures Hamas shows you:



Image




These are the pictures they don't show you:



Image


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Last edited by Ragtime on 23 Jan 2009, 9:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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23 Jan 2009, 9:23 pm

Unless i feel like having the crap kicked out of me I won't poke a bully repeatedly, especially after fair warning.

I think that is called instigation

One side is a bully while the one being smashed by the bully is naive in hopes that their suffering after such instigation will be rewarded with global sympathy and understanding.
.....Their approach comes off as animal, which is all that many identify, instead of realizing their deep oppression from the hands of the very same bully.
.....People tend to identify more with the calm collected side despite this side often being (the worse animal).

Israel and Palestine, Both ugly.


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psych
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23 Jan 2009, 9:43 pm

Ragtime wrote:
Israel doesn't kill civilians en masse. That's why they went into Gaza on the ground, rather than carpet bombing from the air, which would have been much easier, much more effective, and would have avoided more Israeli casualties.


WTF?

Israel are aerial bombing civilian areas with white phosphorus. That isnt even legal!



psych
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23 Jan 2009, 9:53 pm

Ragtime wrote:
These are the pictures they don't show you:


I agree that is disturbing, and quite wrong. However, it is no justification for ethnic cleansing.

There is an even more disturbing photo-essay contrasting the IDF with the Hitlers Nazis, in fact its so upsetting im not even going to link to it. But you can find it by googling: 'germany 1940 israel 2009'



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23 Jan 2009, 10:02 pm

psych wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
These are the pictures they don't show you:


I agree that is disturbing, and quite wrong. However, it is no justification for ethnic cleansing.


Its hardly ethnic cleansing. Isreal is quite capable of just going in and shooting every person they see. THAT would be ethnic cleansing.

As an interesting point though, Palestines population might be dropping. Certainly their attrition is high, but is it higher than their birthrate?

Stats anyone? I'm surprised its never mentioned in the news(true or otherwise).


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Ragtime
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24 Jan 2009, 8:58 am

psych wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
Israel doesn't kill civilians en masse. That's why they went into Gaza on the ground, rather than carpet bombing from the air, which would have been much easier, much more effective, and would have avoided more Israeli casualties.


WTF?

Israel are aerial bombing civilian areas with white phosphorus. That isnt even legal!


Wow, I've never heard that, and I follow Israeli events daily. Evidence? Seeing as how Israel doesn't want to kill unarmed Palestinians (there is endless proof of the Israeli will to spare all innocent life), I wonder what you are talking about, and what your news sources are. Did they leave any suds on your brain when they were done?


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Ragtime
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24 Jan 2009, 9:25 am

psych wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
These are the pictures they don't show you:


I agree that is disturbing, and quite wrong. However, it is no justification for ethnic cleansing.

There is an even more disturbing photo-essay contrasting the IDF with the Hitlers Nazis, in fact its so upsetting im not even going to link to it. But you can find it by googling: 'germany 1940 israel 2009'


Did you mean "comparing"? I assume you did, for there would be no need to constrast the two. For one thing, the Jews in Germany didn't provoke the Nazis with daily rocket fire into their neighborhoods for years. They didn't suicide-bomb crowded civilian areas, or train their five-year-olds to blow themselves up. Also, if I remember correctly, the Jews didn't challenge Germany's right to exist, and say they planned to destroy Germany. They also didn't call all gentile Germans "infidels" or anything of the kind.

Shall I go on blasting your insane comparison, or do you already see how silly it is? Ah well, you probably don't, judging by the level of ignorance in your posts, so let's continue. Israel does not declare itself racially superior to Arabs as the Nazis did about the Jews and other minorities in the region. Also, the Jews' religion doesn't tell them to "kill the infidel wherever you find him", as the Quran does about non-Muslims. There is also no "jihad" or similar sentiment in Judaism -- nothing to motivate any extremist Jews to believe God is telling them to annihilate all Arabs, like Arabs frequently preach must be done to all Jews and other non-Muslims.

Shall I go on?

The Jews also don't have the Arabs in work camps -- no, they are completely free to govern themselves how they choose, and Israel even left the Palestinians tons of valuable agricultural equipment and other supplies when they pulled out of Gaza, which resources the Palestinians immediately destroyed in their madness. Also, the Jews weren't receiving around $1 billion per year in international funding against the Nazis, while the Palestinians are statistically the most internationally well-funded people group in the world. (And can't feed themselves. Bad leadership? Methinks.) Hamas, the leadership group enthusiastically elected by the people it starves, takes all that money, and spends it not on feeding their people and building a viable economic infrastructure, for which it is intended, but instead uses it to only buy more weapons to use against Israel. (This is what happens when a street gang takes over a neighborhood. No one is safe, either inside or outside it.) Also, the Palestinians aren't rounded up and killed en masse in ovens, crammed into "showers" and gassed to death, or starved literally to the bone. Nor are there literally five-foot-high piles of dead Palestinian civilians rotting in the streets as a result of Israeli action. Nor were there thousands of full-rights Jewish citizens still employed by, and even good friends with, the gentile Germans during the Holocaust, as there are Palestinians living, working, and prospering in Israel. The Israelis don't turn to their work partners and say, "Hey! You're an Arab!" and turn them over to be killed, as the Germans did to their Jewish co-workers and friends. I'll post an article later about Palestinians and Jews who are happily working together even while this Gaza situation is unfolding.

Nor were the Jews in pre-Holocaust Germany shouting that they were going to "push the Germans into the sea", as the Palestinians regularly scream and shout about the Jewish population of Israel. Also, the Jews didn't kill more of each other than the Nazis did of the Jews, whereas the Palestinians do kill more of each other -- far more, in fact -- than the Jews do of their terrorist members.


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Last edited by Ragtime on 24 Jan 2009, 9:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

Fuzzy
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24 Jan 2009, 9:42 am

psych, I think Ragtime spanked just ya.


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LePetitPrince
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24 Jan 2009, 10:09 am

psych wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
These are the pictures they don't show you:


I agree that is disturbing, and quite wrong. However, it is no justification for ethnic cleansing.

There is an even more disturbing photo-essay contrasting the IDF with the Hitlers Nazis, in fact its so upsetting im not even going to link to it. But you can find it by googling: 'germany 1940 israel 2009'


That. Google it.



psych
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24 Jan 2009, 10:16 am

Ragtime wrote:
psych wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
Israel doesn't kill civilians en masse. That's why they went into Gaza on the ground, rather than carpet bombing from the air, which would have been much easier, much more effective, and would have avoided more Israeli casualties.


WTF?

Israel are aerial bombing civilian areas with white phosphorus. That isnt even legal!


Wow, I've never heard that, and I follow Israeli events daily. Evidence? Seeing as how Israel doesn't want to kill unarmed Palestinians (there is endless proof of the Israeli will to spare all innocent life), I wonder what you are talking about, and what your news sources are. Did they leave any suds on your brain when they were done?


Sources:
United Nations relief team
Amnesty International
Human rights watch

its hardly a big secret or confined to minor news outlets just google it

Quote:
psych, I think Ragtime spanked just ya.


hes certainly spanking something..

i havent implied that a holocaust is actually taking place, merely that the imagery is 'disturbing'.



LePetitPrince
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24 Jan 2009, 10:17 am

Ragtime wrote:
psych wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
These are the pictures they don't show you:


I agree that is disturbing, and quite wrong. However, it is no justification for ethnic cleansing.

There is an even more disturbing photo-essay contrasting the IDF with the Hitlers Nazis, in fact its so upsetting im not even going to link to it. But you can find it by googling: 'germany 1940 israel 2009'


Did you mean "comparing"? I assume you did, for there would be no need to constrast the two. For one thing, the Jews in Germany didn't provoke the Nazis with daily rocket fire into their neighborhoods for years. They didn't suicide-bomb crowded civilian areas, or train their five-year-olds to blow themselves up. Also, if I remember correctly, the Jews didn't challenge Germany's right to exist, and say they planned to destroy Germany. They also didn't call all gentile Germans "infidels" or anything of the kind.



True, the Israeli did worse, they took their whole lands.


Anyways, I seriously won't waste my time debating with a Bible-believer like you, someone who think of me (since I am descendant Canaanite) as a heretic with "snake's seed in my blood" and that my land should be a part of Bible's Israel kingdom.
I won't waste my time with someone who religiously believes that the Israelis are God's chosen people whatever they do.

It would be much easier if I debate with a wall than debating with someone like you.

Btw, I don't believe in your damn bible, so don't try to convince me that our land is a part of Israel's kingdom. ;)



history_of_psychiatry
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24 Jan 2009, 10:26 am

I feel the same way about the PLO and Hamas as I do about the krips and the bloods. I certainly don't agree with groups that use violence but on the other hand they are just products of their environment.


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Ragtime
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24 Jan 2009, 12:36 pm

psych wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
psych wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
Israel doesn't kill civilians en masse. That's why they went into Gaza on the ground, rather than carpet bombing from the air, which would have been much easier, much more effective, and would have avoided more Israeli casualties.


WTF?

Israel are aerial bombing civilian areas with white phosphorus. That isnt even legal!


Wow, I've never heard that, and I follow Israeli events daily. Evidence? Seeing as how Israel doesn't want to kill unarmed Palestinians (there is endless proof of the Israeli will to spare all innocent life), I wonder what you are talking about, and what your news sources are. Did they leave any suds on your brain when they were done?


Sources:
United Nations relief team
Amnesty International
Human rights watch


Do you actually not know that the UN is blatantly, steadily anti-Israel? As are the other two groups, much less important though they are.

What does Human Rights Watch have to say about the ongoing abuses and killings by Arab governments of their own people? Saddam is gone, but there are still a host of other Middle East dictatorships stealing from, murdering, and generally driving their people right into the ground out of unchecked greed and lust for power. (No wonder the Palestinians don't want to live there.)

psych wrote:

its hardly a big secret or confined to minor news outlets just google it


Oh, so your source is "the Internet". Well, I had no idea it was as reliably accurate as that! :roll:


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