So, Simon [from Mercury Rising] has Asperger's?

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21 Jan 2009, 11:13 pm

Having to reach into fiction, having no type case, shows that they are making it up.

I can understand why, as I got in much trouble saying, "A twenty-five watt bulb with a hundred watt darkness."

At was at this point that the Inquisition discovered that those they were burning at the stake, after long torture, were not all possessed by the same demon. Then they had to name all the demons, and give each attributes that explained the differance in the people they were killing. They were Professionals.

The Science of Human Behavior is mad at us, as is the church, educational system, the army, most people, for they have a system to deal with all humans, that does not work on us. The equation of stimulus=response that they spent so long learning, gets other responses.

One fact seems clear, thinking is not a normal human activity. People who think are called "Eggheads".

A few at a University may be OK, but not just running around doing as they please and questioning everyone else and causing them to think. People are doing what god, their fitth grade teacher, and the football coach told them to do, and questions upset everything.

Asking why is just a phase children go through, some you tell to just shut up, others have to be hit, and the worst drugged. When the schools were stuck with that egghead psycho, the Principal, who was a football coach, told them to keep disruptive children under control, and as there were those foolish laws against beating them, to use drugs.

It was indeed abnormal, less than 3% of the population thinks, asks questions, and it can and must be stopped.

The main problem was, they were all different, no classic type, some were called, "The Professor", most were called other names, and some hit back.

The worst type questioned the official eggheads. They were just trying to do as they were told, lable the disruptive for further punishment, and the disruptive questioned them.

They ask for Wing-Wang Syndrome to be defined, and doubt the great Junior college teacher Attwood when he says trees are not just autistic, some are aspergers. He also feels some household appliances are aspergers. On weekends he is known as Cassandra.

The basic story is smart people who ask questions and think have a form of mental retardation.

Mostly this is published in magazines no one reads, except other lapdog eggheads who work for the State, and at conferances with high security.



Sora
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22 Jan 2009, 12:05 pm

Wait... Simon talks? Now I'm wondering...

I remember that he uses the phone (that should get him +10 points already) and says something (the solution to that puzzle).

But is he able to say anything else in the entire film?

I think he does not meet

Quote:
E. There is no clinically significant delay in cognitive development or in
the development of age-appropriate self-help skills, adaptive behaviour
(other than social interaction), and curiosity about the environment in
childhood.


not sure about D. (language development), but it sure is debatable whether the bold part of E. means anything anyway.


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neshamaruach
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22 Jan 2009, 6:23 pm

Sora wrote:
Wait... Simon talks? Now I'm wondering...

I remember that he uses the phone (that should get him +10 points already) and says something (the solution to that puzzle).

But is he able to say anything else in the entire film?

I think he does not meet

Quote:
E. There is no clinically significant delay in cognitive development or in
the development of age-appropriate self-help skills, adaptive behaviour
(other than social interaction), and curiosity about the environment in
childhood.


not sure about D. (language development), but it sure is debatable whether the bold part of E. means anything anyway.


He actually doesn't say anything on the phone. He just calls the number and they know he solved the puzzle, because the phone number was embedded in it.

He does speak twice in the film, both times about being careful about drinking the hot chocolate. He says it in a very flat kind of voice. Mostly he just makes nonverbal sounds and follows verbal directions. He makes no eye contact at all, but he does hug Bruce Willis at the end.

Not exactly a scientific case study.


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pensieve
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22 Jan 2009, 6:50 pm

Sora wrote:
Wait... Simon talks? Now I'm wondering...

"You're a stranger..."

That's all I remember.

In the film he has autism. I'm not sure if in the book it was adapted from if he did. If the author says he has autism and not AS then that's what he has. I'm pretty sure he was supposed to have classic autism.

It's quite funny in all the reviews I've read they do say he has autism but each review will have him at a different age - one says 9, one say 10 and another says a teenager. He looks like bit of a short teenager to me.



Last edited by pensieve on 22 Jan 2009, 6:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

garyww
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22 Jan 2009, 6:51 pm

Good ol fiction. The autistic kid also hugs 'House' and gives him a toy of somekind in the TV series proving that autistic kids can be 'human' for brief periods of time and then he fades back into the netherworld.

There used to a very good and very real deaf actress but she didn't get to much work becasue she was 'to realistic' as the producers said so now most deaf chicks are just regular actresses with earplugs.


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22 Jan 2009, 6:52 pm

Most of his speech in the movie appears to be echolalic (delayed echolalia, but still echolalia). For example, when he gets his hot chocolate he says "Be careful. It's very hot. Sip it slowly." That is clearly something his mom said to him in the past. There is maybe one example of spontaneous, communicative speech that I can remember, when he says to the guy on the phone, "You are a stranger," and even that may be something that he has been taught to say (I would bet that it is). Even if echolalic speech is used communicatively, a lack of spontaneous, original speech still counts as a language delay. I just don't see how Simon is AS. HFA, sure, but not AS. I realize that those distinctions will likely be gone soon, however.


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22 Jan 2009, 6:56 pm

garyww wrote:
There used to a very good and very real deaf actress but she didn't get to much work because she was 'to realistic' as the producers said so now most deaf chicks are just regular actresses with earplugs.


Marlee Matlin? Yes, she's an incredible actress. I've seen several of her movies, including Children of a Lesser God for which she won an Academy Award for Best Actress (it was her first movie role I believe). She hasn't been in a movie for a while, although she has guest-starred on many TV shows, including Seinfeld, Spin City, West Wing, CSI, ER, Desperate Housewives, and many more.


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22 Jan 2009, 7:09 pm

Echolalia, yeah, but considering that they're calling what the little child with Asperger's does as the same thing nowadays (i.e., repeating stuff read over and over again to adults), and the fact that there's some individuals with AS who rarely talk, even though they can. Throw in the fact that his cognitive pattern would be a little more fragmented than your typical individual with AS (the special skill), it's probably at the expense of his verbal ability. HFA, yeah, but as you said, that distinction will probably go the way of the dodo.

He catches the bus home by himself at his age, which isn't too bad, even if he does need cue cards (which is common for individuals with AS); that's something I could never have done at his age (let's just say 10).

Not making eye contact at all is a common AS thing, as is the slow and monotonous speech.

He is on the higher end of the spectrum.

Sherlock Holmes? Yeah. I haven't read the book she mentions.



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23 Jan 2009, 10:55 am

I don't know who this Simon is, so I'll let the rest of you argue about that one. I'm disappointed in Lorna Wing though, that she uses Sherlock Holmes as an example of a person with an ASD - I don't see him that way. To me he's typical exceptionally gifted, without any significant impairment (except in "normality:, which doesn't count :wink: ). I wish people would stop getting the two groups confused like this.

As far as AS vs autism, argue while you can, because I expect they're combining them in the next DSM and the point will be moot. (And about time.)

BTW, Lorna Wing's daughter died a while back. I can't remember where I read that one. Very sad. She was drinking too much water and it threw her matabolism out or something.



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23 Jan 2009, 11:30 am

The character of Sherlock is not on the spectrum in my opinion becasue his detailed and rational thinking was always 'linear' and sequencial. Autistics are typically random in their logic patterns which permits them to make many more cross connections that a typical person.


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mosez
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23 Jan 2009, 11:55 am

garyww wrote:
What I'm saying is that this type of reinforcement from professionals about fictional stories only goes to perpetuate the old sterotypes and really brings nothing new into the equation. As a result we are all seen as either Sherlock or Simon. It's been that way for about forty years and this will not help to change the public image of 'differences'.

Must agree with Gary, here. People on the specter are as different as any other person. You really seldom come across those stereotypes.
People on the specter have various degrees of whatever, autism, AS.. etc. and they also have different personalities, so they also handle things differently. Some may have good acting skills, and maybe live a whole life without anyone notice that they are different at all. We must not forget that everybody have their own personality, whatever disorder they may have.


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23 Jan 2009, 6:40 pm

Did Sherlock have any peer relations or social reciprocity outside of his work? He was never married, right? I think he also only ever really liked one female (enough to mention it), and that's probably because she had traits he liked (investigation). He was quite withdrawn from social relations as far as I can remember, but I only read one novel in the mental hostel, so I don't exactly have the complete picture.

RE: Asperger's and Autism. and the next DSM: they're still working on it, discussing it, etcetera, so they may still be kept apart (it's not a sure thing that they'll be merged). One problem I see if they're merged, is that people with "mild" Asperger's may be relegated to ASD-NOS, or even forgotten about entirely if they function too well.



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24 Jan 2009, 1:01 pm

My impression is that Sherlock Holmes had as many friends as he wanted. And being a confirmed bachelor wasn't a sign of anything bad back then (I don't know about now).

What impressed me was his ability to disguise himself as various characters. In one story he was courting a maid in one house he was investigating, and he had her completely fooled that he was some delivery man.