NT woman at her wit's end with her male Aspie friend

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For about 6 months I've been friends with a man that despite my best intentions I adore.

He only hinted at having AS about 6 weeks ago and his timing was almost too late as I was quite close to ending the friendship due to what I saw as a pattern of narcissistic, rigid, and in a few instances just plain mean behavior on his part. In fact, I did cut off all communication earlier in the relationship as he had what I felt was an overreaction to my being late (I was very sorry and apologetic but he was not willing to accept).

When I finally did contact him, after about 6 weeks of no contact, he made it a point to tell me he'd had a really great 6 weeks while we were out of touch, and when I referenced a conversation from the first few months of our friendship he informed me he recalled nothing whatsoever about any of our conversations. (His memory has improved remarkably since then, by the way.)

I'm not one who relishes playing armchair clinician, however based on info from sites like Tony Attwood's, ASPIRE, and Wrong Planet, it certainly does seem like he's an Aspie. Many of the traits I perceived to be narcissistic, unkind, etc. seem to fit with some of the descriptions of the traits of the syndrome. Once I read about it I felt I understood him and his behaviors about 99% better (I will not claim that final 1%). Since then we've gotten along even better and have spent a fair amount of time together.

A description of some of his traits/ interests:
- employed at an IT company; doctoral degree in science
- does not have a telephone, nor a TV or stereo, just a computer
- communicates only via IM or email (and writes beautifully, often in stark contrast to face-to-face discussions which can sometimes become a bit tedious)
- excellent visual/ spatial skills, poor fine motor skills
- echolalia
- less sensitive to temperature changes than most people
- stiff/ tense posture, sometimes his fingers curl together, he appears to pick at his skin
- extreme preferences/ dislikes of particular fabrics, lighting, music
- prefers conversation about things, never feelings; answers questions with questions
- strict adherence to personal schedule, has shown anger when schedule may be threatened
- a detailist
- social life seems to consist of participation with hobby groups and/or events at his alma mater
- unusual sleep patterns, preoccupation with sleep


Now that I've gotten my layman's diagnosis out of the way, here's why I'm posting: I'm not sure how he sees me. Is he interested in pursuing me as a GF or simply as a friend? I asked him once before I knew about AS and he became so upset with me he actually disconnected from our IM session. I asked again this past week and after saying he didn't understand the question, he said I was annoying, accused me of emotional blackmail and, you guessed it, disconnected. This has bothered me because part of me feels he knows what he wants and that he's the cat and I the mouse. There's no way for me to know if he's toying with me or really just cannot connect with that part of himself.

We've spent quite a bit of time together but he's never touched me. When we first met he'd play with something of mine like a scarf or hat I'd just taken off. However, he did stop doing that. He's had at least 2 GFs in the past 6-7 years and says they lasted 18 or so months each. They sound different from me, both were in his line of work in the sciences (perhaps they were AS too?). I work in the arts and humanities and my personality is quite friendly and outgoing. I have no idea if his past relationships were such work that he's decided he doesn't want another romantic relationship or even what his definition of these topics would be. And he won't tell me.

I know he likes my company because he spends quite a bit of time with me. It isn't uncommon for us to spend 24 hours to a full weekend together.

Unfortunately, I have no idea if my dating other men will bother him or not. He did once accidentally meet a guy I was casually seeing and AF definitely was not friendly toward him but his reasons for that could have nothing to do with any romantic feelings toward me.

So, despite quite a bit of drama and tons of work on seemingly simple issues, I'm very fond of him and at the very least want to know if anybody here can offer some insight as to how I can keep my sanity but also keep him as a friend.

Thanks for enduring this epic post,
Another touchy-feely NT

Last edited by RecentlyBookmarked on 27 Jan 2009, 2:24 am, edited 2 times in total.

I'd drop the whole AS thing, he's obviously not liking you talking about it. It's possible he knows or has a dx, but prefers to keep it quiet. Being public about one's dx can have ramifications for family or work, it's like being gay in that some people are better off staying in the closet or some people will just use it against you.

He sounds alot like me, although he seems to be more easily angered, and reluctant to admit his personal feelings. I wouldn't mention that you are seeing other guys, as he is probably trying to form a relationship with you, in his own aspie way, and might see that as rejection(we tend to over-analyze) or failure. He might then disappear completely. If you just want him as a friend, then I think you should tell him that, and he may get angry, but should be able to understand. If not, at least you were honest, and shouldn't beat yourself up about it.

it just might be wise to focus on yourself?

What is it in you (or your history) that results in you being attracted to in him?

I have AS but would never dream of going out anyone who was lacking in sensitivity, gentleness and empathy.

Pre dx and psychotherapy I was a 'mirror narcissist' and as codepandant as you can get......warmth, tenderness and gentle affection were like the sun that melted the icy layers around my heart, my attraction to cold and emotionally broken down women stemmed from my inability to care for myself, and value myself.

Chris

Aspergers is more at the milder end of the spectrum than where I fall. However, reading emotions is not something I can do very well. When you want him to know something about how you feel, you need to say it verbally and not expect him to catch on to hints, etc. Also, generally speaking Auties and Aspies do not generally do well discussing feelings, etc. It is not in our neural makeup. You might want to try every now and then, but don't push him into doing it. From what it sounds like, he is interested in you.

my guess is he, like most aspies early on, has no idea what you are saying. Whether he likes you or not, he might be worried about how his responce will affect you. You are being open and honest, but aspies are used to others NOT doing that. Heck 9 times out of 10 if a girl says she likes me I dont believe her. Aspies hate "the game" but they usually assume the other person is playing it.

On the up-side, if you can get an answer out of him there is a good chance its an honest one. Trick will be getting him to belief you have legitimate interest in him. Might be good to see if you can find out how his other relationships started

Don't misunderstand, I've never asked asked him to discuss it after the time he brought it up. Besides, it's only been 6 or 7 weeks since he mentioned it.

Can you explain this a bit?



I suspect this is the problem.

Also, based on my experience with him, no matter what these other women's personalities were, the relationships must have taken a lot of work and energy on both parts. Perhaps he doesn't want to go through that again.



Why?



Well, he certainly does seem to be on the defensive.

I'm just not so certain that *he* isn't playing a game.




Not a bad idea, thanks.

I do that now. About a month ago he said he "strongly encouraged" me to tell him if I was angry.

Of course, when I said it hurt me that he couldn't tell me what he wanted from our relationship he told me I was annoying.

Criss, you've certainly hit on something. It's far too complicated to write about right now however I'm well aware that meeting AF has pushed some buttons.

I truly suspect that he knew I was close to ending our relationship again (yes, I know AS folk aren't great at social cues but he does recognize patterns and cause and effect) and that's why he brought up AS. The last thing I want to do is excuse anybody for poor behavior, but once I read about AS I had so much insight into much of his behavior. We've had a great time together since -- he's been much more relaxed, open and empathetic-- and the only bump in the road was my asking about our relationship status.

This may seem ironic, but he encourages me act and be more confident in the areas of my life where he apparently thinks I am or was not. A few weeks ago he told me he'd noticed I no longer "apologized so much" and he complimented me on the change. Meeting and talking to him has really stimulated my mind, and I find that now I am much more likely to aim even higher with my personal goals.

In general, he seems quite interested in *not* showing *any* vulnerability. He gives off an aura of confidence and pride.



I'll have to look these up.



For better or for worse I think he's attracted to me because I am warm, etc. As I said, I'm an outgoing, friendly person and while I'm far from a doormat (I'm the one who tells my friends that they are taking too much crap from their guys, employers, etc.), I do have many types of personalities in my groups of friends-- in other words, I like eccentric people and I have an eclectic group of friends.

I enjoy our conversations which I find intellectually stimulating and they are reciprocal. Knowing him has inspired my imagination in new ways and it's affected my creativity.

Sadly, I'm not sure if he can or wants to understand just how much work I've done on my end of this friendship. That's why I posted here.

At first: Six months are not firendship, it's an affaire.



As an Aspie on my own I can feel more with your friend than with you - this has nothing to with you, but it just easier for me to slip in his shoes.

I live in a partnership with a NT on my own and it took him (and me) a lot of time to understand what I can't "deliver". He needs his occasional touch, warm words. I make him breakfast and do not see the point of eating with him, write him e-mails, even we sit at the same table, etc. Back to you: You wanted something from him, what can't do. I do not know your friend, but with me, I was always open for a reasonable solution.

Talk with him, explain him that for your well-being a "less abstract" communication is needed. I did understand him, even I could not relate myself to his needs. My love expresses itself as an concept of support and care, so I know that he needs to get this emotional touch from outside the partnership and I do accept it; without any difficulties or even being jealousy. If your friend is really an Aspie the chances are quite high that he will understand it, at least on an intellectual level and will can deal with this. But: you need to open and express your needs clearly and without double meanings.

Finally: You do need to forget that the feelings of romantic love are temporary. For a long term relationship an Aspie can offer you a lot of real support, so long you do not try to change him or ask for thinks he just don't understand and can't so.

I am touched by your willingness to work on this relationship, and your openness. I wish you well.

Much peace to you.

Chris

I have this issue too... if you were to know what it was like for me in high school, with women flirting with me rather heavily, but for the sole purpose of using my ability to, well, do basic math, without actually liking me for who I am, you would understand the suspicion that many aspies have in this situation, and why there's such a disdain for lying in general...

Thank you.

You mentioned I should get back to me: replying to your first reply helped me outline why and what I get out of knowing him and it also reminded me of why it is important to me-- not to mention you helped me put *me* back into the equation ; )

Maybe you should take a different approach. It's very hard to sometimes to make an NT/AS relationship work. I've had a 3 1/2 yr friendship going with my mine and I hit walls all the time. A really bad one this fall. Most of our communication is through IM so I'm familiar with that.

They don't like being put on the spot with questions. I've been told to address any issues through email so I have a chance to say what I need and he has a chance to think about it. I would suggest that you don't talk about relationships or emotions though IM. Write him an email and express your thoughts but without emotion. Be direct and honest. Perhaps you can say that you like him a lot and that you would like to go further in the relationship and be his girlfriend if he is interested. This way he knows how you feel without having to guess anything then he'll be able tell you what you need to hear. Be sure to let him know that if he doesn't want you as a girlfriend that you are still his friend. I think this will be a good way to approach it.

If something is making him sign off of IM, then that goes on the "don't talk about it" list.

Good luck.

AF ??