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Sand
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09 Feb 2009, 1:45 am

That a concept of justice must rely only on a theoretical punishment after death does not apply in my case since an after life and a theoretical super judge merely strikes me as naive foolishness. The old Christian concept of treating others as one would prefer to be treated one's self is basically more potent. It has nothing to do with an imaginary super being but deals with all other living beings with empathy. On that basis it can (in my case) be carried to what other people consider extremes since I extend my empathy to all life. Naturally, living things struggle against each other to gain necessities and existence demands one struggle against other aggressive life, but there is a margin of consideration within life to minimize the mayhem. Religions in general with their concepts of punishments and rewards in an afterlife, are more focused on death than life which strikes me a psychopathic. We all eventually fall to death but focusing on it as the coercive corrective of living behavior strikes me as being way off the mark. The point of living is to enjoy it as much as possible while it lasts and help other beneficent living creatures do the same. Death is implacable and not a factor except to avoid it as much as possible.



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09 Feb 2009, 10:04 am

Sand wrote:
That a concept of justice must rely only on a theoretical punishment after death does not apply in my case since an after life and a theoretical super judge merely strikes me as naive foolishness.

Do you have a problem with the concept itself Sand, or just what organized religion has done with it?

I would agree that the effects that organized religion has on society is a bad one; so would the OP. His problem is that he has openly admitted that he only cares about himself, and the only way he would do anything for someone else would be if there was something in it for him. That is pretty much my definition of evil and that old Christian concept of treating others as one would prefer to be treated is a fair definition of good.

Hypotherticaly, if there was a life-force, that had a plan to make good prevail and eradicate evil; wouldn't you worship it?


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Sand
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09 Feb 2009, 10:25 am

NobelCynic wrote:
Sand wrote:
That a concept of justice must rely only on a theoretical punishment after death does not apply in my case since an after life and a theoretical super judge merely strikes me as naive foolishness.

Do you have a problem with the concept itself Sand, or just what organized religion has done with it?

I would agree that the effects that organized religion has on society is a bad one; so would the OP. His problem is that he has openly admitted that he only cares about himself, and the only way he would do anything for someone else would be if there was something in it for him. That is pretty much my definition of evil and that old Christian concept of treating others as one would prefer to be treated is a fair definition of good.

Hypothericaly, if there was a life-force, that had a plan to make good prevail and eradicate evil; wouldn't you worship it?


I more or less concur that we all act selfishly in everything. But the concept of the self is important here. When I see a man or a child or an animal in need or suffering I incorporate that creature into myself and feel relief if I can help. It also does something for my ego to be competent in giving aid. I tend to be extreme in these matters. If I see a bee or a hornet buzzing against a bus window where I am a passenger I take a small plastic bag and capture it and free it when I get out. I am currently helping about 200 wild ducks get through the winter by feeding them. I saved a baby sparrow and raised it when I discovered it on the street. If an indigent person asks me for money I always give something if I can. I am living on a meager social security income but my pleasures in life are helping those who need it and it is a real selfish pleasure and it brings about to a very tiny degree the kind of world I prefer to live in. As an AS I find most people insensitive and not very bright but as fellow animals I do my minor best to make a better world. That's very selfish.

In general I am repelled by religion because death is so central to it. I am devoted to life.



Sand
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09 Feb 2009, 11:45 am

Sand wrote:
NobelCynic wrote:

Hypothericaly, if there was a life-force, that had a plan to make good prevail and eradicate evil; wouldn't you worship it?


I think your last sentence is most repellent to me. The concept of worship of anything, gods, extraordinary people, life, etc. is that of a slave crawling and groveling before some sort of dominating master and it is totally alien to any of my thinking. I don't worship anything. I try to understand it and somehow find it useful in my life. I admire a great many things and examine the basis of that admiration to dissect out why I feel that way. As a designer and artist and poet I turn my admiration into tools to use in fabricating my own productions which are not imitations but things following interesting and revealing principles. Nature has produced extraordinary beauty and utility and there is not one particle of aesthetics involved. It is all engineering. I am fascinated by this but I do not worship anything.



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09 Feb 2009, 1:23 pm

Sand wrote:
I don't worship anything.

Except, perhaps, yourself?

It seems that you and the OP are cut from the same cloth.


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09 Feb 2009, 2:36 pm

NobelCynic wrote:
Sand wrote:
I don't worship anything.

Except, perhaps, yourself?

It seems that you and the OP are cut from the same cloth.


I respect my ability to discern what is gong on. Is that what you mean by worship?

What's the OP? Operating Principle? Oxygen Phosphate? Octopus Parade? Ordinary People? Octogenarian Platitudes? Obligatory Pissers? Organized Penises? Goodness! I wonder.



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09 Feb 2009, 8:35 pm

Sand wrote:
What's the OP? Operating Principle? Oxygen Phosphate? Octopus Parade? Ordinary People? Octogenarian Platitudes? Obligatory Pissers? Organized Penises? Goodness! I wonder.

Wtf?

Do you actually expect me to bellieve that you have been here as long as you have and don't know what that means?

Would you even like me to believe that you are not smart enough to figure it out?


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09 Feb 2009, 11:07 pm

NobelCynic wrote:
Sand wrote:
What's the OP? Operating Principle? Oxygen Phosphate? Octopus Parade? Ordinary People? Octogenarian Platitudes? Obligatory Pissers? Organized Penises? Goodness! I wonder.

Wtf?

Do you actually expect me to bellieve that you have been here as long as you have and don't know what that means?

Would you even like me to believe that you are not smart enough to figure it out?


What you believe is of no concern to me. If you choose to play cute don't expect me to bother to understand.



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09 Feb 2009, 11:14 pm

OP = "original poster"
For irreverent definitions of this and other slang, abbreviations &c, Urban Dictionary is indispensable.


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Sand
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09 Feb 2009, 11:37 pm

twoshots wrote:
OP = "original poster"
For irreverent definitions of this and other slang, abbreviations &c, Urban Dictionary is indispensable.


Right. I appreciate the return to civility.



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10 Feb 2009, 8:29 pm

Sand wrote:
What's the OP? Operating Principle? Oxygen Phosphate? Octopus Parade? Ordinary People? Octogenarian Platitudes? Obligatory Pissers? Organized Penises? Goodness! I wonder.

Oh, and all this time I thought it meant that!


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NobelCynic
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11 Feb 2009, 4:36 am

Sand wrote:
If you choose to play cute don't expect me to bother to understand.

For what it's worth, I thought I was returning mockery with mockery. Permit me to rephrase my answer.

The person you were refering to (added by me in bold) when you posted this:
Sand wrote:
I more or less concur with the OP that we all act selfishly in everything. But the concept of the self is important here.

Is that better?


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11 Feb 2009, 4:48 am

NobelCynic wrote:
Sand wrote:
If you choose to play cute don't expect me to bother to understand.

For what it's worth, I thought I was returning mockery with mockery. Permit me to rephrase my answer.

The person you were refering to (added by me in bold) when you posted this:
Sand wrote:
I more or less concur with the OP that we all act selfishly in everything. But the concept of the self is important here.

Is that better?


No problem. Thanks for your concern.



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13 Feb 2009, 1:42 am

Sand wrote:
When I see a man or a child or an animal in need or suffering I incorporate that creature into myself and feel relief if I can help. It also does something for my ego to be competent in giving aid. I tend to be extreme in these matters. If I see a bee or a hornet buzzing against a bus window where I am a passenger I take a small plastic bag and capture it and free it when I get out. I am currently helping about 200 wild ducks get through the winter by feeding them. I saved a baby sparrow and raised it when I discovered it on the street. If an indigent person asks me for money I always give something if I can. I am living on a meager social security income but my pleasures in life are helping those who need it and it is a real selfish pleasure and it brings about to a very tiny degree the kind of world I prefer to live in. As an AS I find most people insensitive and not very bright but as fellow animals I do my minor best to make a better world. That's very selfish.

Thank you for informing me of that. I have always wondered why some people get angry when I inform them that I do not appreciate their efforts to help me.

Bees and ducks are fine and beggers are alright as long as you don't do a charitable act for a human being, that is not asking for it, because they can inform you that you are doing more harm than good and that could deflate, rather than inflate, your ego.

I would also suggest avoiding doing charitable acts for large predatory animals such as lions, tigers and bears. They can't deflate you ego, if they do not appreciate your efforts to help them, but they could just decide to eat you and get a little nourishment while removing a source of anoyance.


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13 Feb 2009, 2:48 am

NobelCynic wrote:
Sand wrote:
When I see a man or a child or an animal in need or suffering I incorporate that creature into myself and feel relief if I can help. It also does something for my ego to be competent in giving aid. I tend to be extreme in these matters. If I see a bee or a hornet buzzing against a bus window where I am a passenger I take a small plastic bag and capture it and free it when I get out. I am currently helping about 200 wild ducks get through the winter by feeding them. I saved a baby sparrow and raised it when I discovered it on the street. If an indigent person asks me for money I always give something if I can. I am living on a meager social security income but my pleasures in life are helping those who need it and it is a real selfish pleasure and it brings about to a very tiny degree the kind of world I prefer to live in. As an AS I find most people insensitive and not very bright but as fellow animals I do my minor best to make a better world. That's very selfish.

Thank you for informing me of that. I have always wondered why some people get angry when I inform them that I do not appreciate their efforts to help me.

Bees and ducks are fine and beggers are alright as long as you don't do a charitable act for a human being, that is not asking for it, because they can inform you that you are doing more harm than good and that could deflate, rather than inflate, your ego.

I would also suggest avoiding doing charitable acts for large predatory animals such as lions, tigers and bears. They can't deflate you ego, if they do not appreciate your efforts to help them, but they could just decide to eat you and get a little nourishment while removing a source of anoyance.


At 60 it is evident you still could profit from mental development. Perhaps another decade or two might help. As life closes down you start to acquire more perception of its value.