Has anyone attempted to divide Aspergers into subtypes?

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LabPet
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02 Feb 2009, 2:01 am

CockneyRebel wrote:
For those of you who have gotten to know me, what do you think my subtype would be?



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02 Feb 2009, 2:36 am

Disgraceful wrote:
Lorna Wing wrote about four ASD subtypes in her book The Autistic Spectrum: A Guide for Parents and Professionals -- the aloof group, the passive group, the "active but odd" group, and the over-formal, stilted group. If I remember correctly, she states that people with ASDs often fall into more than one of these categories. But you'll probably have to get hold of a copy of the book if you want to read up on it. I don't know if it's available online anywhere.


That sounds pretty accurate actually! I've always thought Autism needs a better classification system than Classic Autism, PDD NOS and Aspergers. It's much too broad, and within the Autism "spectrum" you can have anything from someone who cannot speak and lives in their own world, all the way to a chatterbox who will talk to anyone. Even within the Aspergers group you have those who are like robots, and those who can function almost as an NT. And that is why we get the constant "But you're not like Rainman!" comments, because the public doesn't understand the broad range of Autism.



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02 Feb 2009, 3:54 pm

I would strongly recommend reading "The Myriad Gifts of Asperger's Syndrome" by John M Ortiz. It is a book of potted case studies of individual Aspies, all of them different:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Myriad-Gifts-As ... 1843108836



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02 Feb 2009, 6:38 pm

MizLiz wrote:
I saw a list of types that was a list of celebrity names (celebrities who obviously don't have it). Are you a Spielberg Aspie?

I don't see how Spielberg has it. How could you and be involved in such a social industry with that much sensory input all the f***ing time?

Are you a Morrissey Aspie?

I'd put Morrissey as more of a schizoid than anything.

Then I think Einstein was one, obviously, and also Bill Gates.


You're right there. When I said what type I was, I wasn't associating myself with the people the labels named but, rather, the ATTRIBUTES the video attributed to the labels. I DO agree with you though, that most of the names are STUPID!



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02 Feb 2009, 8:09 pm

Ditto to above posts & thank you for the book link, RarePegs and also Disgraceful. As in all individuals there are types. In botany there are genus, then species. But within those species are varieties and these can differ from geographical regions of merely miles! Yet they are all the same species but their color and other factors may vary.

With AS/HFA there are common denominators which hold us together as a diagnotic classification. Even here, on Wrong Planet, we have all sorts - but with our factor of Autism (at whatever form or level). Orchids are orchids but their varities can be diverse. However, their mechanism and evolutionary precipitants are same. The 'triad' of impairments (as per DSM-IV TR) holds but can manifest in myriads of ways. Some of our differences, within our kind, are not as overtly shown in certain individuals. Our means of expression are diverse but the message holds!

In chemistry I think of us (ASD) as a qual scheme where we follow the same path but may express as divergent speciation. And that's the beauty of Autism. By association, I just watched another video my Stephen Wiltshire (a favorite savant - the human camera). A fellow artist who is very distinguished in the Royal Academy of Art said, about Stephen's art, "Joyous....like embroidery." Very astute, as in many colored threads intricately woven but create a Gestalt whole.


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03 Feb 2009, 6:40 pm

A few random observations.

I can see bits of myself in all four of Lorna Wing's AS subtypes (aloof, passive, active/odd, overformal/stilted). I really think I am all of these to some degree.

I have been looking at lectures lately by Digby Tantam, of the University of Sheffield, who does a lot of work in the AS/autism field. He distinguishes between:

Typical Asperger syndrome

Characterised by:

�� Unusual manner, gives
immediate impression of
idiosyncrasy due to
impaired nonverbal
expressiveness
�� Makes contact on own
terms
�� May discuss unusual or
particular interests
�� Problems with
unexpected or unclear

And Asperger syndrome variant/ atypical autism

Characterised by:

�� Primary abnormality is
lack of empathy, partly
due to failure of nonverbal
interpretation
(‘face blindness’)
�� Ability to make
relationships but not to
keep them
�� Overlap with Tourette,
ADHD, dysexecutive
syndrome, expressive
language problems,
dyscalculia
�� Developmental
hypofrontality?



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03 Feb 2009, 7:10 pm

Also, a clear distinction I see comes from my own first-hand experiences of Aspies.

I proudly call myself an "independent Aspie". One of those Aspies who is more independent in mind, in thought, in personality. One of those Aspies who is particularly independent of the mainstream social milieu and group mentality. Other independent Aspies I know may be independent in different ways, but they're decidedly independent.

And I see a distinction between that and a lot of Aspies who come across as less independent of the mainstream social milieu. Some seem to me to bond with each other much like NT's, use more non-verbal expression, and have more mainstream interests.

But the independent Aspie has more distinct interests. A more distinct, individual personality. And when I say "independent Aspie" that doesn't merely mean they live independently. They almost certainly do, but it's just something that's inevitable when they are so independent in personality.



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03 Feb 2009, 7:58 pm

So if I get this right you're saying that there are 'independent' aspies and then 'other' aspies? Is that the crux of it?


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Keeno
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04 Feb 2009, 2:50 am

I'm certainly saying I think there are independent Aspies. But "other" Aspies are not supposed to be some sort of miscellaneous category.

And, I was thinking of it as more a continuum rather than to say independent Aspies are some sort of elite group of Aspie.



04 Feb 2009, 3:22 am

poopylungstuffing wrote:
Which villain?



Cruella De Vil.



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04 Feb 2009, 3:23 am

http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt70435.html

AutCode is one possibility.


M.


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04 Feb 2009, 7:43 am

Keeno wrote:
I'm certainly saying I think there are independent Aspies. But "other" Aspies are not supposed to be some sort of miscellaneous category.

And, I was thinking of it as more a continuum rather than to say independent Aspies are some sort of elite group of Aspie.


and the measure of independedness would then be translatable in a measure of (state or other) assistance required;
this can be divided into styles of approach in assistance required on the basis of auti-typology

you got me thinking Keeno
i do not agree with subtyping your style from the scientific point of view, (although it would simply HAVE to be relatable)
i do feel this is very useful in term of managing one' s autistic life

as to the merits on the scientific debate: you got me thinking, keenly


@garyww: each proper diagnosis involves TWO diagnoses

if you are happy with simply being 'autistic', on the spectrum &c, then (and only then) can one stop there; this is the first step of the full dx: the acknowledgment one is autistic at all

this diagnosis nr1 is of value only from the societal point of view: it provides one with the right to certain benefits

it was all i needed at the time of dx; i was not in the system; no health insurance, no job, no source of income, nothing; i needed something or jump off a bridge; went to gp, gp agreed i had occasion to be evaluated (my suggestion: schzoid? maybe schizotypal?);
but basically i did not care: if they decide me mad, at least i live:
me no ho due to heteroness only, and rather die than suck dickney

that, to me, is the value of diagnosis nr1;
which i performed myself on WP two weeks later,
and had confirmed during diagnostic admittal all february,
on the working hypothesis of bipolar
i was proven correct, despite all odds

i now find myself having a life: right here! thank you very much

anyway, why did it take them so long to admit: well...
as said my psychiatrist: what i wanted was not a diagnosis at all:

from the professional point of view, a real diagnosis is my dxnr2:
the customized one, in terms of practical usage as well - and this is where sup-typing becomes of great interest to yourself as an autist;
remarkably, it is precisely that, which i never was afforded...

however: in the diagnostic process (which is not OUR point of view!!)
subtyping, sublabelling is essential, because it makes autism visible to the outside world - that simply is what a diagnosis (nr1) IS

it is through subtyping only that Asperger' s became related to autism at all: the moment there was HFA, there was room for AS

it is up to us (HFA=AS) to show that PDD is 'proper' autism,
that ALL those comorbids may very likely not be comorbid at all,
but must first be considered as more possible faces of what is currently called "a-typical autism" but may well turnout to highly typical indeed,
and that eg Tourettes and ADHD are essentially related, although maybe not in terms of traditional triadic thought

but believe you me: the days of the triad have already been numbered!

it.has.become.personal/[email protected]


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04 Feb 2009, 8:00 am

makuranososhi wrote:
http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt70435.html

AutCode is one possibility.


M.


makuranososhi,

i just took that link, could you possibly try and explain to a technical notwot like me, why that discussion vaguely made sense to me and got me interested

what does this AutCode do for me?

is it worth anyone's time to pursue this?

should i be bothered at all? i appreciate your style thought and phrasing:
i trust your judgment in these matters

IT?dont.mistake.me.for.someone.who.give ... obertO.iii


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makuranososhi
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04 Feb 2009, 1:10 pm

Each code breaks down aspects into levels of degree and affect; thus a complete code gives a snapshot of the individual. These codes exist for many subgroups in society online.


M.


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For those who seek an alternative, it is coming.

So long, and thanks for all the fish!


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04 Feb 2009, 4:45 pm

poopylungstuffing wrote:
I am self-centered, right-brained, artisticly and musically inclined, strong visual/associative memory, non-mathematical, an obsessive collector of things and a repetitive doer moreso than a gatherer of information...though I went through more obsessive fact-collecting phases when I was a kid...I have a funny voice, walk on my toes, stim a lot, am marked by sorta arrested emotional maturity, basic AS-ish sensory issues and avoidance of eye-contact, strong (combined-type)ADD issues, such as executive dysfunction out the wazoo...am somewhat less intelligent than a lot of the aspies in some ways...am very disorganized, somewhat extroverted, socially liberal, and not inclined to lead a very regimented life.


This actually fits me pretty closely, aside from the artistically/musically inclined part.



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04 Feb 2009, 4:58 pm

I think there are 2 types of aspies; the ones that don’t talk very often and mumble words and the ones that talk allot and sound nerdy.