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Postperson
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12 Mar 2009, 10:03 pm

BadMachine wrote:
the resaon christianity falls down for me is that if you belive in god then you have to acknowledge the devil.

a guy with a tail,pointy horns, cloven hooves and of an all over red hue, i mean c'mon, get serious.

disclaimer: this mail is in no way meant to lampoon individuals faith.


absolutely. I find christians who don't think the devil is real, or think its just some mediaeval myth absurd. satan is a real force in the world, just as god is. he can take on any identity he wishes, so the tail, pointy horns etc is a bit well, I dunno about that picture.



BadMachine
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13 Mar 2009, 5:14 am

Ok, even disregarding the clichéd devil/evil image I think that this is just one example of why I find Christianity belief difficult to follow. It seems that it is so open to interpretation it’s hard to know if you are following the right line. It ‘feels’ uncomfortable and confusing,.

I prefer the Buddhist teachings ; clearly defined, easy to follow instructions.

The closer something is to science and an empirical method of understanding the easir things are to follow.

At the end of the day I think all formal religions are probably derivative.



Kenjuudo
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13 Mar 2009, 7:48 am

Q: Why are we religious?
A: Because we want answers and we are afraid of dying.

Q: Why do we want answers?
A: Because otherwise, we'd think too much about topics that are impossible to find an answer for in the first place.

Q: Why are we afraid of dying?
A: Because it's the unknown. We are automatically afraid of things we don't understand.

Q: There are literally hundreds of religions. What religion is the correct one?
A: Short answer: None. Long answer (in short terms): Everyone have positive moral values. Choose the one that fits your lifestyle.

Q: What alternatives are there to religion?
A: Atheism. I've spent a LOT of time thinking about all the topics that religion hands you the prefabricated answers to.

Let's take the concept of God. What you see in the world is what you get. God's existance is logically impossible because whenever science expands it's horizons, God needs to be pushed further away. This will in essence continue forever.

Let's take the concept of death. All current physics theories dictate that an absolute nothingness or end is physically impossible. Energy can't disappear from the universe, it can only change form. It is therefore impossible that death is the ultimate end anyway, so why believing in a fantasy figure?

Let's take the concept of consciousness. You sit inside your head and look out of your eyes. What is looking? What is the "me"? Is it physical? If not, it doesn't have to be energy, does it? -- Well, it's not exactly physical. I believe consciousness is an illusion. An additional effect of being intelligent. Also, it has been developed through the advancement of language and the fact that we have communicated with each other and found out that we are, in fact, individuals. Also, people "back then" began to create tools and devices to help them in the daily life. It soon became impossible for them to imagine that anything could exist without having a creator. (Yes, this is very simplified. I could take the long discussion somewhere else though.)

But SOMETHING had to create the universe. Sure, but using the same deductive logics; Something had to create the something that created the universe and we are back to square 1. Who created God?

Religions answer this with a simple "God is eternal". Great! Discussion ends there. (It's impossible to fight against dedicated bigotry.)


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BadMachine
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13 Mar 2009, 8:51 am

i must admit i got introduced to Buddhism by a friend when i ws aving a particularly hard time tryig to understand other peoples actions. it really helps put things into a managable context.

as it may have been said elsewhere on this site - people are problems :wink:



mom2bax
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13 Mar 2009, 12:57 pm

well you could always look into an audio bible as well that way you can just listen as well as read.

i happpen to agree with some of teh posts i have read, pick a translation of teh bible that you understand. i personally like teh NLT (new living translation) the message is another one in everyday comom english that is good.

i woudl also agree with going church "shopping" trying out a few places to see which ones fit best with you. i woudl suggest goign to a church at least 2-3 times to get a really good feel about it unless you hated it teh first time.

i believe tht we are all hardwired with that knowledge of something bigger than ourselves, i am glad that you have decided to consider Christianity.
i wish you good luck in your journey.



Gwen1953
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14 Mar 2009, 12:50 pm

I'm a christian and I can totally recommend it. Go for it.



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14 Mar 2009, 12:53 pm

Kenjuudo wrote:
Q: Why are we religious?
A: Because we want answers and we are afraid of dying.


Q: Why do we want answers?
A: Because otherwise, we'd think too much about topics that are impossible to find an answer for in the first place.

Q: Why are we afraid of dying?
A: Because it's the unknown. We are automatically afraid of things we don't understand.

Q: There are literally hundreds of religions. What religion is the correct one?
A: Short answer: None. Long answer (in short terms): Everyone have positive moral values. Choose the one that fits your lifestyle.

Q: What alternatives are there to religion?
A: Atheism. I've spent a LOT of time thinking about all the topics that religion hands you the prefabricated answers to.

Let's take the concept of God. What you see in the world is what you get. God's existance is logically impossible because whenever science expands it's horizons, God needs to be pushed further away. This will in essence continue forever.

Let's take the concept of death. All current physics theories dictate that an absolute nothingness or end is physically impossible. Energy can't disappear from the universe, it can only change form. It is therefore impossible that death is the ultimate end anyway, so why believing in a fantasy figure?

Let's take the concept of consciousness. You sit inside your head and look out of your eyes. What is looking? What is the "me"? Is it physical? If not, it doesn't have to be energy, does it? -- Well, it's not exactly physical. I believe consciousness is an illusion. An additional effect of being intelligent. Also, it has been developed through the advancement of language and the fact that we have communicated with each other and found out that we are, in fact, individuals. Also, people "back then" began to create tools and devices to help them in the daily life. It soon became impossible for them to imagine that anything could exist without having a creator. (Yes, this is very simplified. I could take the long discussion somewhere else though.)

But SOMETHING had to create the universe. Sure, but using the same deductive logics; Something had to create the something that created the universe and we are back to square 1. Who created God?

Religions answer this with a simple "God is eternal". Great! Discussion ends there. (It's impossible to fight against dedicated bigotry.)


Yep, and that just sums it up. Hopefully in years to come, people will just be looking back and laughing at the concept of religion.


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Shadowgirl
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15 Mar 2009, 12:55 pm

Thats great be sure to read you Bible daily and pray.

Theirs also lots of good literature out there to brush up on certain subjects.



benjimanbreeg
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15 Mar 2009, 3:41 pm

The bible has some good ideas in it yes. Its cool how fictional books can teach us a lot about life.


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Kenjuudo
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15 Mar 2009, 9:29 pm

benjimanbreeg wrote:
Yep, and that just sums it up. Hopefully in years to come, people will just be looking back and laughing at the concept of religion.
I doubt that will ever happen. Humanity will be extinct before they develop that kind of intelligence. :roll:


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Kilroy
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15 Mar 2009, 10:09 pm

IdahoRose wrote:
Good for you! :D You ought to join the Catholic Church. It'll take awhile to get used to, but it's very nice.


yuck!

you like anything fun-stay away from catholics
I stopped being a catholic at 3(when I figured out it was really stupid!)
christianity can be good
but there are a lot of "f****d up sects"



benjimanbreeg
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16 Mar 2009, 3:58 am

Kenjuudo wrote:
benjimanbreeg wrote:
Yep, and that just sums it up. Hopefully in years to come, people will just be looking back and laughing at the concept of religion.
I doubt that will ever happen. Humanity will be extinct before they develop that kind of intelligence. :roll:


Yeah, probably :(


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millie
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16 Mar 2009, 5:23 am

Which line isn't true?

I'm a christian. (Catholic persuasion.)
my dad is a well known australian hymn composer.
my uncle is a priest.
my dad went into the Catholic seminary at age 14 or so.
My grandparents' house was covered wall to ceiling with Catholic depictions of Christ and the Madonna.
My great aunt was a nun.
I am related to the first Australian Catholic Saint (still being beatified but on the way there.)
My other uncle left the priesthood for f*****g a woman and getting her pregnant.
my dad got asked to leave one of the most prestigious seminaries in Rome (attached to the Vatican.)
My Granny and Grandfatehr lived opposite the parish church and went to mass nearly every day. (6 am service)



cantexactlysay
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19 Mar 2009, 8:28 am

I'd recommend full research on Catholic churches, Protestant churches, and Orthodox churches before making a final call. I don't know much about the Orthodox churches, but one could argue that Protestant churches are idolatrous of the Bible in as much as Catholics worship Mary and drink the blood of saints. Honestly, interdenominational bickering is full of hot steaming fertilizer IMHO, which is one of the reasons I tend to avoid apologetics altogether. However, if you intend to walk the path of Christianity, make sure you find a church which brings you closer to Christ and only Christ, not somebody's idealistic version of him.



millie
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19 Mar 2009, 2:42 pm

^ and where pray tell, do you find the real Christ? and not the idealised versions?



cantexactlysay
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19 Mar 2009, 6:16 pm

I honestly don't feel like I fit into any religion, though I try my best to humbly follow God through Jesus Christ, as the old saying goes, constantly praying for God to reveal his will to me. However, as I said, I'm not getting into apologetics. :wink: