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FireBird
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23 Feb 2009, 10:46 am

I do separate them. At least you can see my point. I know they are 2 different disorders. That is exactly what these people are doing, telling me I can't speak. Its cool that you have a Master's in psychology I wish I have one so I can diagnose people!



Sora
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23 Feb 2009, 11:12 am

Okay, people stop personal stuff I won't even comprehend for a moment ->

Postperson wrote:
Are there opportunities for you to speak at schizoaffective bipolar type conferences? I don't have a problem with you doing that at all.


I think you should consider how the people at such conferences would feel. Because an autistic person giving a speech there would put them in the position you now talk about in regards to autism.

Many of these people with schizophrenia, other schizo-affective disorders or bipolar are also bothered or feeling the speaker doesn't talk about anything connected to them if a a public speaker talking about these disorder also has an ASD. A person with even mild autism is thought of as 'giving off the wrong impression' about their problems.

It's the same argument backwards.

Which I think should make people question that argument. Also because people with only one spectrum disorder representing that spectrum disorder are also usually grossly misrepresenting many of the people with the same diagnosis.

And people may continue with personal stuff I don't comprehend again ->


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poopylungstuffing
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23 Feb 2009, 11:19 am

Hello..
I am hopping over here because of the post I read in the Haven, and because I have a friend/bandmate who has a similar condition to Firebird's.
People who have schizoaffective disorder bipolar and autistic traits do exist...and I don't see why they shouldn't be able to speak about it.
One ought consider the audiences she will be speaking to. It is likely that these people are already familiar with autistic spectrum stuff to a certain extent if they are at a conference for it.
Since autistic spectrum stuff does manifest in different forms, I don't see how she would be misrepresenting her area of the spectrum.

I have been accustomed to the ups and downs and delusions and lucid periods of my good friend for many years, but perhaps to the outside observer who happens to encounter him when he is going through one of his manic/delusional phases, he is very likely to be stigmatized as a raving lunatic...but he's not...he is a good person with a chemical imbalance.
He is a great poet and an artist who has managed to make his way in the world thus far, having struggled with a complicated mixed bag of issues that have affected him since childhood.

When he is in one of his bad cycles though, negative confrontations will only make it worse for him.

Anywhoo...Everyone deserves a success story....and now I have lost my train of thought.



MissConstrue
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23 Feb 2009, 11:35 am

Congrats FireBird that is amazing!! !

I too love art and would love to see your sketches or any other talented work!!


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ed
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23 Feb 2009, 11:52 am

poopylungstuffing wrote:
I am hopping over here because of the post I read in the Haven.


Me too... :D

I just read this whole topic. FireBird (and her mother) have stated over and over that she also mentions her schizophrenia when she talks about her autism. You all seem to miss that point. If you don't want her speaking publically, that's just too bad. Why don't you "pure" autistics go speak publically about your condition, if it bothers you so much.

FireBird, it is forbidden here to attack another person, even if they are attacking you. The attacks others have made against you here are nowhere near as severe as the attacks you have made against them. I'm surprised none of our "full-time" moderators have called you on them. Please don't do that. Try to ignore their insults.

I wish I could draw, I have zero talent in that direction :D


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lau
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23 Feb 2009, 12:44 pm

Ditto to everything said by ed.

I have no idea, Postperson, who you might feel is "qualified" to speak about autism. Personally, I much prefer to be represented by people who have at least some idea what they are talking about.

By my criteria, I'll say that FireBird is an excellent choice as an autism representative - especially because her autism is not some "purist" form. A form which somehow might have utterly no effect on her life beyond the prescribed diagnostic symptoms.

I see no compelling reason why, at a talk on autism, she should even mention anything about her situation beyond her autism. It is autism she is talking about, not a lecture on herself.

And... a success story makes a welcome change.


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poopylungstuffing
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23 Feb 2009, 12:55 pm

Quote:
FireBird, it is forbidden here to attack another person, even if they are attacking you. The attacks others have made against you here are nowhere near as severe as the attacks you have made against them. I'm surprised none of our "full-time" moderators have called you on them. Please don't do that. Try to ignore their insults.


I recognize the mindset of her attacks..defensive, and otherwise, because I have observed them in my friend. It is kind of the nature of the beast...(the imbalance) When my friend is in one of his manic/delusional cycles, the slightest hint of perceived criticism will release a hailstorm of...um...(whats the word I am looking for?)....rebute. It can be difficult to deal with. One must take it with a grain of salt, and one must be very careful about what one says around him when he is like that. I am glad, for his sake and ours that he isn't always that difficult...but during these times, it is difficult to quantify the level of mental anguish he is going through.

I am not trying to compare Firebird so much to my friend or visa-versa...just trying to communicate that I see where she is coming from and understand why there is a negative feedback loop that will just continue to perpetuate if it is allowed to.
We should be happy for Firebird and remember that this is supposed to be a support forum.



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23 Feb 2009, 1:03 pm

Padium wrote:
Postperson wrote:
You're actually misrepresenting autism if you pretend you don't have all those other dx'es.


That is something I completely agree with, be honest and upfront about your other diagnoses.


I am going to clarify that statement... I did not mean that you were or were not doing this, I was simply stating that to deny one aspect of yourself when explaining another makes it more difficult for people to understand you. It has nothing to do with misrepresenting autism, or even representing autism at all. It has to do with representing yourself as a person with autism, and what that means, and what your comorbids mean alongside it. It has to do with you being you. I think that a person cannot draw lines and seperate one disorder from another disorder when they are of a similar nature. The different natures a disorder could be of being physical, neurological. It is important to me that people do not try to draw boxes and say this is where this ends, and over here in this box we have this other condition. No, that is not how the mind works. The mind works by as one whole, and as much as I can seperate between what disorder is causing what with me, I don't want to seperate them. That is because I am the combined knowledge of all my aspects, thoughts, and memories, and together they form my collective consciousness. They do not remain seperate in the greater consciousness, the blend to form a distinct person, and they compound on top of each other. Just because one is talking specificly about autism doesn't mean they have to only talk about autism.

Ultimately what I mean by that is that you can choose to speak about how your comorbids affect you because of autism. Sensory issues are not autism, and yet every talks about them as having a lot to do with it. That is because these sensory issues are interpretted by an autistic in a different way than an NT with sensory issues because of how the mind works. An NT won't be sent into a meltdown because the nosie is too great, an autistic possibly would. A person with ADHD might have problems paying attention to a person speaking, and have difficulty with conversation because of it, whereas an autistic with ADHD would have those issues of the autism amplified because of the ADHD. It isn't about whether or not you are representing autism accuratly, its about whether or not you are representing your experience with autism accuratly. And that is something I am confident you are already doing, as they wouldn't be letting you speak about it otherwise. My goal was to say that "hey, there is more to autism than just autism."

Again, I am not saying you should do this, or do that, just represent yourself as an autistic person, and however you do that, you will find that you may want to include bits and pieces of other things, just to show how autism isn't just about autism, it is about the person who has it.

FireBird wrote:
Padium, are you implying that I am a f-ing liar?


As for this, I am curious to know what you think I think you are lying about, because I never once assumed you were lying about anything in this thread. I have also seen your art, as you link it in your profile, and it is good. Have you ever thought of making art that tells a story? Some of the greatest works of art in history were made as reflections of one's self through the media they are using to make the art.



zen_mistress
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23 Feb 2009, 3:07 pm

Firebird, I have seen your artwork and it is lovely. Wish I had a talent like that.

I dont have schizoaffective tendencies. But I do know that having an AS/autistic mind can also make a person vulnerable to developing other co-morbids. I have co-morbids up to the ceiling. Doesnt make me any less AS.



Postperson
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23 Feb 2009, 4:03 pm

ooh now I'm being attacked!

shall I play the victim and get mummy to help me? i hope my acting skills are good enough, i haven't had as much practice at professional victimhood as others, nor do i have a coach.

you don't know how hard it is for us 'pure' autistics, how much I've struggled and suffered from the inability to pick and choose my dx'es, unable to dip into all available baskets of available pity (ie money) and think of all the financial opportunities I've missed!

If people want support for their other dx'es they should seek it elsewhere.

I also note that Firebird doesn't seem to ever offer support to anyone else here, only demands it of others.

Yes I do object to people conflating mental illness with autism in the eyes of the public. I am not mentally ill. I do not want people to presume I am, because I have autism.

It's 'nice' of the dually/multiply diagnosed people here to show up in the last page or so, to support their own cause, but you can hardly expect me to find your opinions neutral or disinterested.



FireBird
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23 Feb 2009, 5:42 pm

Postperson you are at it again. You think that I'm nothing but a jerk. I think this thread should be locked so no more attacks against me or anyone. I DO offer support to others. You are NOT a nice person, Postperson. You are mean and a bully. Just because I have other disorders doesn't make me a bad person. But you treat me as such. You want me eliminated from this world. You hate me because of my so called "schizophrenia." It is just plain wrong to shoot others down, I only shoot others down when they hurt me. And you have countless times, Stupid Postperson. I want this to end NOW. I don't want you posting on my thread.



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23 Feb 2009, 11:39 pm

birdlady5555 wrote:
Hey Danielismyname if you don't like Firebird's posts don't read them. This is the first time ever despite all the boards that I go to that the mean-spirited and downright nasty attacks are being posted. I am sorry if your life is crappy and I feel bad for you that you can't be happy for someone. I am sorry if the only thing that makes you feel good is to put down and destroy the happiness in others.

Firebird struggled for over 10 years to get where she is now. She has been suicidal because she was so depressed because she was getting nowhere. She is so happy for the first time that I can remember. The reason she talks about this so much is one because she is happy and two because she wants others to realize that anything is possible if only you believe in yourself.


It works both ways in regards to that. I haven't seen any attacks on people, other than by your daughter; attacking an idea and behaviour isn't mean or invalid, no matter what people think--have a look at your daughter to see truly mean behaviour which attacks the person. How do you know anything about my life? That's pure presumption. If you would so happen to read what your daughter writes, and how she becomes immediately defensive in a childish manner when someone doesn't sing her praise, one must wonder what's the intent behind the original post. Also, if she or anyone bases happiness on success in superficial ways, they're deluding themselves, as happiness comes from within yourself, not the approval of society or trying to prove someone wrong--this is a sign of low self-esteem, where someone isn't truly happy with who they are. Depression will come soaring back when something eventuates that'll disrupt this success (there always is something).

That's cool, but it doesn't look like that's her intent.

Where I'm standing, it looks like typical trolling for praise.



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24 Feb 2009, 1:53 am

I'm also rather sceptical of people who come here with multiple dx'es and a product to sell. Joining forums in order to sell a product is known as 'viral marketing'. I don't know that my objections simply reduce down to 'pure' autism, as alleged.



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24 Feb 2009, 9:32 am

Postperson, there is no "viral marketing" in firebird's statements. She's accomplished quite a lot for a young person and she has a right to feel proud of it.

I know you have strong opinions, but try to take her perspective. It is hard for aspies to do that, but I think that if you try, you can break out of this rigid, self-centered position.



FireBird
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24 Feb 2009, 2:35 pm



Last edited by FireBird on 24 Feb 2009, 2:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.