Magick

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I was wondering if anyone here believes in magick or anything like magick? Some of my friends are convinced that they can do magick and even think I may have some sort of magick power inside me. A part of me does kind of believe them, while another part of me thinks they're freaking nuts, and so am I for believing them. But I do wonder sometimes. I definitely don't think there's any sort of Harry Potter spells being conjured up or anything, but I do sometimes wonder if energy can be bent to a certain extent. From dreams I've described I've been told before that I might have reached the astral plane without knowing it. I also have plenty of Pagan and Wiccan friends who have their own beliefs about magick. While I'm definitely not either, I must say I had a tarot reading once and it was scarily accurate. I'm really torn on the subject, part of me believes but part of me doesn't at all. What do you guys think, does magick really exist, or is it just a bunch of silly hocus pocus?

Tarot card readings, horoscopes, and things of that nature are sufficiently vague that, if one is so inclined, one can piece together the pieces of "information" to accurately describe parts of their life. The emphasis is your mind and what you make of it - but what you make of it has zero bearing on the truth and objective reality.

I used to believe in spirits and gods and magick, but the singular thing I came to realize throughout the years of beliefs and rituals and everything is that, well, nothing happened. Anytime I had supposed that something did happen as a result of my magick, it was always because I wanted the result to be influenced by my magick. In other words, the entire idea of psychic powers and magick plays on the EGO. The whole notion that you have magical powers is seductive.

Anyway, believe whatever you want to believe. Just, please, don't make any decisions based on unfounded beliefs. Don't change relationships with people, don't avoid medical science, and don't seduce other people into believing that crap. Indulgence in fantasy is one thing, but when you mesh your fantasy with reality, people often get hurt in one way or another.

Short answer: yes, Magick exists.

And I want to second what Legato said:

That's the most basic principle for living a good life no matter what religion or belief you are of. If you just assume, guess, whatever that something might be the way it is, it's most stupid to take that into consideration when deciding anything - even the smallest, tiniest matters.

Magic, Magick, Miracles and such like are bloody nonsense. The Universe operates according to physical laws. When we do not understand these laws sufficiently well, we substitute magic, magick and miracles.

ruveyn

my short answer is: no.

i know adult people, members of "O.T.O." who wave wands, wear robes, and perform silly rituals.

the only thing they get out of it, is a horrendously pretentious and condescending attitude. good for them.

Does existing only in our minds count as "existing"?

I believe in Advaita Vedanta which is a brand of Hinduism. In Hinduism, there are personal powers called "siddhis" which are like magical powers. In Advaita Vedanta, the purpose is to attain enlightenment or realization. It is best to pursue realization without being impeded by greed for siddhis. There is a belief that if you focus on pursuing enlightenment whole heartedly, you will also have siddhis. However, if you get distracted by siddhis before enlightenment is fully attained, you will not attain enlightenment until you give up attachment to siddhis.

I have had siddhis in my life and I believe many so-called normal people experience special or magical powers from time to time. While some siddhis are constant, for the average person, they will come and go.

If you tell me what they believe they can do, I may be able to help you design experiments to test their abilities. If the abilities are real, there's a million dollars to be won from the James Randi Educational Foundation.


Have a look at the Forer effect (also called Barnum effect). Could that, combined with cold reading explain the apparent accuracy?


From the above, you can already guess that I don't think it works as a method to influence the universe at large. If you claim magical abilities, the claim may help to influence people who believe you, but it would be effective only because of the beliefs people have.

Serious attempts to test whether paranormal abilities exist started about 150 years ago. Since then, the trend has been that the better the experiment is designed, the less likely you are to find an effect. That is generally a sign of silly hocus pocus.

You could get more information on the topic by listening to the skepticality podcast. Numbers 084 and 085 might be most interesting for you. And if you're thinking of investing significant time and effort into magick, it would be a good idea also to read Skeptic Magazine and watch a few of Michael Shermer's youtube videos, perhaps read some of his books. Check your local library.

Cool, thanks for the information. Very informative. :]

Without going into a long rant, or spouting philosophical doubletalk, I'd say that there is no such thing as "Magic" in any of its homonymous spellings, due to lack of repeatbly verifiable evidence.

However, in the interest of open-mindedness, I'm willing to concede the point if someone could demonstrate the existance of real "Magic" in the presence of two or more professional stage magicians, whose sole purpose is to expose and debunk any trickery on the part of the person making the demonstration. If "Magic" is real, then there is an easy way to make a million dollars and acquire bragging rights. Follow the link below...

Million-Dollar Challenge

James Randi, world-reknowned stage magician and sleight-of-hand artist, offers a one-million-dollar prize to anyone who can show, under proper observing conditions, evidence of any paranormal, supernatural, or occult power or event.

Any takers?

Last edited by Fnord on 23 Feb 2009, 3:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

and I thought that there was no magic due to the laws of physics

Sorry, I got the subject and object mixed up a bit.

- The Laws of Physics prohibit the existance of "Magic".

- My belief in the non-existance of "Magic" is due to the utter lack of repeatably verifiable evidece.

If the laws of physics actually supported "magic", it wouldn't be considered magic. People would just invent super-magic or something like that.

Religions are an easy way to pass on the morals of a society and to instill the desire for people to improve themselves. People seem to be much less altruistic without some form of spirituality.
Several religions use prayer and chants to create a positive meditative state for the faithful. Magick is another word like blessing. It is something that happens to, or for, people who practice religion.
Whether it is real or not is up for discussion because a lot of things happen that cannot be explained by science. Color Magick and Aroma Magick have been tested by psychologists and are commonly used today. Other types of Magick may work too, but our inability to filter out the actual catalysts from the rituals is what keeps most people from believing.

No living person fits that description.

ruveyn

Sorry, I meant does MAGIC existing only in our mind count as existing?