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How Little is a Trillion

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IdahoAspie
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05 Mar 2009, 3:31 am

Ragtime wrote:
IdahoAspie wrote:
twoshots wrote:
A trillion here, a trillion there, and pretty soon you're talking real money.


I think it will take real money to turn around the economy.


Just real money, or real money spent correctly? I would not define "spent correctly" as "giving money to those institutions who have shown the greatest talent for losing it."

But hey, that's just me. You may have a different opinion.


Well, the government doesn't know how to spend money correctly, that is why they have spend so much.



IdahoAspie
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05 Mar 2009, 3:33 am

pakled wrote:
I know I'm gonna mess this up, but
I think a dollar bill is about .02" thick (correct me if I'm wrong)

1,666,666,666 (and 2/3rd...repeats ad infinitum)
26,304 miles high stack o' onesies...;)

but I've never been good at math...;)


Who cares how high it is, we have to pay it, not climb it.



Henriksson
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05 Mar 2009, 3:43 am

Hmm... how long is a rope?


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IdahoAspie
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05 Mar 2009, 4:29 am

Henriksson wrote:
Hmm... how long is a rope?


I don't think that we are overly in debt. I know, 9-10 trillion sounds like a lot. But it isn't really. It is less than $1.20 a day per person per day over their lifetime in the country.

You pay more for cable.



Orwell
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05 Mar 2009, 4:37 am

IdahoAspie wrote:
I think using the lifetime span to pay it off is accurate because that is how long we have to pay it off.

And how many two-year-olds do you know who hold down jobs? At least go for the working years.


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IdahoAspie
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05 Mar 2009, 4:47 am

Orwell wrote:
IdahoAspie wrote:
I think using the lifetime span to pay it off is accurate because that is how long we have to pay it off.

And how many two-year-olds do you know who hold down jobs? At least go for the working years.


Well, I figure the parents need to pay their child's share of debt, just like they do their share of the costs, road costs, health care costs, and etc.

So a couple with two kids, would have to pay their child's share from the time the child is born till the start working. That would be an extra 12.5 cents per day, or $821.25 over the life time of the child, about $45 a year. In return, the child gets government services, such as roads, postal service, bridges, education, and medical care.

Or an adult can pay their share from the time they are 16 to 68 when they work. or an extra $2 a month from the ages of 16 to 68 to cover the years from 0-16 and 68-80.



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05 Mar 2009, 5:09 am

Then take into account the government's "normal" budget and the accumulated debt of the past half century or so. What now does the typical American owe? (And make working age from 18-65) Take the median salary of a working-class citizen and show what percentage of their paycheck is required to foot the bill.

Will you get such a pleasant number? I thought not.


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IdahoAspie
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05 Mar 2009, 6:07 am

Orwell wrote:
Then take into account the government's "normal" budget and the accumulated debt of the past half century or so. What now does the typical American owe? (And make working age from 18-65) Take the median salary of a working-class citizen and show what percentage of their paycheck is required to foot the bill.

Will you get such a pleasant number? I thought not.


Well, each person's share would be based on their share of the overall income after basic expenses.

No, it isn't intolerable. The US citizen still pays far less than the average person does to their government.

If the total debt is $10 trillion, that is $1.20 a day, for a person that makes $35,000 a year. The yearly budget is $1 about 2 trillion, and costs the average person 30% of their income.

The average European pays about 40-50% of their income on taxes. So, I think it is sustainable.



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06 Mar 2009, 9:16 am

You really think it's reasonable to give 40% of your money to pay for government?

That doesn't strike you as somewhat exorbitant?

Surely there is a way to make it a lot cheaper.


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ruennsheng
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06 Mar 2009, 10:30 pm

I will never forget the 83% taxes before Reagan...



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07 Mar 2009, 6:00 pm

I'll tell you what IdahoAspie, why don't you just go off and count to one trillion. Tell me how long it takes you.



IdahoAspie
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07 Mar 2009, 7:57 pm

Atomsk wrote:
I'll tell you what IdahoAspie, why don't you just go off and count to one trillion. Tell me how long it takes you.


Well, if it takes me a long time to count to a 99 thousand, does that mean it is a lot of money too?

Does it sound logical to determine if something is too much or too little based on how long or little time it takes to count that high?

Or is it more logical to think about numbers reliative to what they are describing?

I can easy count to 100, does that mean 100 cookies is the right amount?

I can easily count to 200, and 81, is too easy, so I should take 200mg of aspirin instead of 81mg?

I cannot easily count to 100 billion, does that mean I should have less cells in my body?

It takes to long to count to 3,000 while driving, so perhaps my RPMs should not reach over 400 or 500?

No, your logic doesn't follow anything relevant.



IdahoAspie
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07 Mar 2009, 7:58 pm

ruennsheng wrote:
I will never forget the 83% taxes before Reagan...


Were you even alive and working during Reagan?

And never has the tax rate been 83%, ever.



IdahoAspie
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07 Mar 2009, 8:08 pm

Orwell wrote:
You really think it's reasonable to give 40% of your money to pay for government?

That doesn't strike you as somewhat exorbitant?

Surely there is a way to make it a lot cheaper.


Yes, 40% is too high, but not too much higher than the 33% we pay now. The question was not if I think it is unfair, but if it is sustainable.

Remember though, European culture has higher taxes, but they also haves services our government doesn't provide in the US, such as cheaper college education, public transportation, unemployment benefits, and medical and dental.

You make taxes cheaper by not providing services.

The US is growing in taxes because it is subsidizing private businesses without regulating them, not because it is providing more services.