Why do women find cheating romantic?

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MissConstrue
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06 Mar 2009, 1:16 am

Haliphron wrote:
Perhaps men really do have a valid reason to be distrustful of women and even attempt to control womens sexuality; because many of them get a thrill out of cheating and will do it when they get the chance. :idea:


Wow, judging from most of your negative threads about women, why does this not surprise me? >_<


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millie
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06 Mar 2009, 2:20 am

i don't find cheating romantic. i find it kind of tawdry, immature and something i am not into. i am very transparent in this way. i believe in being upfront and honest and i have no difficulty with that in my life.

I do however believe in "open" relationships, where honesty is fundamental to the whole issue of having more than one partner. it is possible and i have experienced it. i am in this situatio now actually and it is working ok.

i have experienced a kind of "cheating" scenario a couple of times in my life. people end up hurt and bruised and usually the cheater spins stories about how unhappy she or he is in their marriage and how the marriage is just about over and how she/he is about to move out and is about to change things. over time, it usually becomes apparent that the initial talk about the "bad marriage that is about to dissolve" is just that - a load of fantasy talk that has little to do with reality and with living with integrity. the person cheating is usually enjoying the ride with the new person AND snuggling down to homelife at the same time, whilst maintaining they are not doing this. bit by bit the reality unfolds and the only person who wins is the cheater - who usually has two partners going at the same time and conveniently witholds certain realities from each in order to perpetuate how they want things.

and that does not mean the cheater is a bad person or "immoral" or a total f****r. it probably means there is a host of reasons for this kind of behaviour that even the cheater hasn't worked out yet. and it is probably quite different for each person who cheats.

i suppose i have come to realise if someone cannot tell their partner they are f*****g around or want to f**k around, then there is something amiss.

usually it is about someone wanting their cake and eating it too.

However, the possibility of open relatiionships is there and can be done. that way, all parties can assess the situation and actually live with a bit of integrity and awareness. everything is out in the open and things get worked through or discussed and this, for me, is maturity.

usually a cheater - when confronted with this notion of openness - will run a mile - because they cannot really live with the integrity that is required. they might "talk " about it and theorise they can do this, but when the crunch comes, the cheater will usually split and run for the hills because they actually require secrecy and cheating just as much as they require their married partner and their fluff on the side.

everyone gets hurt.
i have indeed been the "fluff."
and i suspect some AS people - both men and women - are susceptible to being "fluff on the side" because we believe what people say to us and we take things literally.
some people i know say to me it takes me months to work out what others sum up in ten mintues when it comes to interpersonal relating and intimacy issues. i am clueless, i am told.

and this is not a sex or gender specific issue. it works both ways. it is also not about moral judgement or criticism. it is just an analysis of a scenario.



Last edited by millie on 06 Mar 2009, 4:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

Haliphron
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06 Mar 2009, 2:42 am

makuranososhi wrote:
Haliphron wrote:
Perhaps men really do have a valid reason to be distrustful of women and even attempt to control womens sexuality; because many of them get a thrill out of cheating and will do it when they get the chance. :idea:


Thrill seeking is not a gender specific trait; it happens in both men and women, and both commit acts of infidelity. Misogynistic suspicion and paranoia only serves to push people further apart, not closer together. To attempt to control another person's behavior is something that I find rather repulsive.


M.


You are absolutely CORRECT about the first sentence Makuranososhi! While both men and women cheat, I still have to wonder sometimes if one sex as a greater biological incentive to do so than the other.I must admit that what those women said(in the OP)would really have SHOCKED me 10 years ago because I thought that men had less to lose by infidelity than women but Im still not entirely clear. But I would like to point out that (scientific)research has shewn that while both men and women cheat, their MOTIVES for cheating are not the same.



millie
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06 Mar 2009, 3:00 am

Quote:
Haliphron wrote:
But I would like to point out that (scientific)research has shewn that while both men and women cheat, their MOTIVES for cheating are not the same.



what are the different motives haliphron? i am interested to know what the research has come up with.? hope you can post it in this thread.



Haliphron
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06 Mar 2009, 3:30 am

millie wrote:
Quote:
Haliphron wrote:
But I would like to point out that (scientific)research has shewn that while both men and women cheat, their MOTIVES for cheating are not the same.



what are the different motives haliphron? i am interested to know what the research has come up with.? hope you can post it in this thread.


Well, I saw a program on The Learning Channel some 10 years ago called The Human Sexes which can found on amazon.com and I HIGHLY recommend it. :wink: But I also distinctly recall LePetitePrince posting a thread with a well thought-out essay on monogamy and how monogamy caters more to mens interests than womens. His conjecture was that men created monogamy as a way to ensure that every male, NOT just the alpha's, has a chance at getting a female. So modern women see cheating and even promiscuity as a way of rebelling against male hegemony. Have you ever seen Sex and The City? Thats a VERY GOOD example of what Ragtime is talking about in the OPost. In hip circles its known by the euphemism "lipstick feminism".



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06 Mar 2009, 3:43 am

Cheating is not romantic. Ragtime makes up goofy threads all the time. Besides, you can't take an aspie's interpretation about a co-workers flirtatious looks anyways. Work should be professional so maybe there is an element of excitement over being naughty and breaking rules or something lame like that but romantic? Eww...


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millie
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06 Mar 2009, 4:16 am

Quote:
Haliphron wrote:
millie wrote:
Quote:
Haliphron wrote:
But I would like to point out that (scientific)research has shewn that while both men and women cheat, their MOTIVES for cheating are not the same.



what are the different motives haliphron? i am interested to know what the research has come up with.? hope you can post it in this thread.


Well, I saw a program on The Learning Channel some 10 years ago called The Human Sexes which can found on amazon.com and I HIGHLY recommend it. :wink: But I also distinctly recall LePetitePrince posting a thread with a well thought-out essay on monogamy and how monogamy caters more to mens interests than womens. His conjecture was that men created monogamy as a way to ensure that every male, NOT just the alpha's, has a chance at getting a female. So modern women see cheating and even promiscuity as a way of rebelling against male hegemony. Have you ever seen Sex and The City? Thats a VERY GOOD example of what Ragtime is talking about in the OPost. In hip circles its known by the euphemism "lipstick feminism".


thanks. at some point i will search out the show you reference above.
on this topic, i am off to see tony attwood and isabelll heanault tomorrow - a day's forum on AS and relationships not far from where i live. I know my views of relating and relationships are somewhat novel and weird, i am told.

i have never seen "Sex and the City." although i get your drift re the "lipstick feminism" stuff.

as kinked out as i am...honesty is still the best policy....all the way.



ToadOfSteel
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06 Mar 2009, 9:03 am

millie wrote:
as kinked out as i am...honesty is still the best policy....all the way.


...why do you have to be twice my age?

PS: another show to look up other than Sex and the City would be Desperate Housewives... That's got a lot of that going on too...



Gliesen_Antrho
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06 Mar 2009, 10:15 am

I'm sure there is some scientifc expriment showing that females are more into males that another female likes.

I remember some expirment where filters where used to trick female fish into thinking a drab loser male was a brightly coloured alpha and the other females where suddenly intrested although from their angle it looked like drab male being chased by other females.

I think it was in New Scientist



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06 Mar 2009, 12:43 pm

Gliesen_Antrho wrote:
I'm sure there is some scientifc expriment showing that females are more into males that another female likes.



This is almost certainly true -- It's a "sky is blue" obvious phenomena, one that I think any guy who has gotten a GF and suddenly found himself a lot more popular with women can attest to.

When I had a dry spell, it lasted a very long time (3 years). When I finally got a GF, and then married, it seems like all the women came out of the woodwork and started throwing themselves at me.

On the topic of why men and women cheat, I think that men tend to cheat for either very shallow/sexual reasons, or some basic dissatisfaction (the grass is greener), but that it might not be as personal (thus the open relationships in the gay community where both partners are free to have sex with others, but remain committed in their heart to one person), while for women, sex is very personal, so when they cheat, the relationship is almost certainly over. Women cheat for love, men for sex, is the dumbed-down version (with exceptions, of course).

Since this is the web, and confidential, I don't mind confessing here about some of my misdeeds. I know what I write below will trigger a lot of deserved criticism, but I won't take it that hard. I think Aspies appreciate honestly above all else, and true facts.

The major event in my life a couple of years ago was when the girlfriend of one of my coworkers met me and started secretly contacting me over IM. I was going through a turbulent period in my marriage -- My wife's brother was dying, she was diverting funds from our life savings to his care against my wishes (we already knew it was a lost cause, and that he was terminal), and I felt our relationship unraveling. We weren't having sex nearly as often as we had before (we both were very sexual people), and her brother, who formerly had been one of my best friends, was treating me badly, probably in part because of the illness he had and the surgery that had happened to try to save him. I had a lot of resentment for both of them at this point, and felt like basically I was being used, and that my wife was mortgaging our future (and that of any family we planned to have) so that her brother could live a few months more. I'm sure there would be a lot of split decisions on this (my sisters took my wife's side in this matter), but were it me, I don't think I would want anyone ruining their future to extend my life like that -- I'd rather go out quickly, and take my own life, than waste away and drain everyone's resources.

So I ended up having an affair with the coworker's GF. They lived nearby, I saw her during my lunches, and it quickly became sexual. We weren't really in love at all -- there was mutual attraction (both of us had compatible "ethnic" fetishes) physically, and she was starved of sex in her relationship, but it was pretty apparent early on we did not have the same chemistry. At the same time, I couldn't imagine her replacing my wife, as no one I have ever met has had the same perfect personality and fit my wife has with me. I felt terrible about it, but also somehow drawn to satisfy my needs.

I was also mad at life, at how I always felt like I was losing out, that I couldn't win, and at that point was maybe semi-suicidal, or at least reckless. Seeing my brother in law withering away like that, right in the part of life where he should have been finally coming into his own, and having been such a great person and hard worker for so many years (he was only in his early 20s, but had been through so much) made me very fatalistic. Work had also been very frustrating, as I had been working hard, gotten a higher degree, and still not been promoted, so I didn't care about wasting their time, and felt like I was going nowhere. I wanted to break the rules of life, break free of fate, get off the rails, do something that didn't seem to end up with me losing out.

This went on for a couple of months, and was actually pretty much over when something (I won't say what) made me have to admit it to my wife. She was devastated, and so was I, because it was kind of like the Aspie meltdowns of all meltdowns. I cried like I had not in decades, sobbed, told her everything. After her initial shock, she was actually pretty understanding, and didn't divorce me. Deep down inside, we know we're perfect for eachother, and she knew she had been doing some things that pushed things that way. In some ways, our marriage got stronger, and it was almost like some of her worst fears came true, and were not as bad as she had feared -- we lived through it.

We're planning on trying for kids soon, after 11 years of marriage (we're both in our low 30s). I have a new hobby now that seems to have quenched a lot of my desire to wander, and I think getting what I wanted sexual-fantasy-wise also helped quench other issues with my psyche that were pushing my mind to wander. It also helps that I now have no porn restrictions (prior to that, she wouldn't let me have certain kinds, including my main fetish), and that we try to keep a healthy sex life. I know not everyone will have this happy ending, and I for sure do not advocate being as reckless as I was (there were and will be consequences, some life-changing), but I think for now, it works out for the best. Also, since we now own firearms (my new hobby), I wouldn't dare cheat again, especially since she knows how to use them ;)



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06 Mar 2009, 1:18 pm

Gliesen_Antrho wrote:
I'm sure there is some scientifc expriment showing that females are more into males that another female likes.

I remember some expirment where filters where used to trick female fish into thinking a drab loser male was a brightly coloured alpha and the other females where suddenly intrested although from their angle it looked like drab male being chased by other females.

I think it was in New Scientist


"Drab loser male". That's my favorite phrase of the day. Especially since I have adolescent koi. Fish are way more neurotic than people give them credit for.


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06 Mar 2009, 1:20 pm

ToadOfSteel wrote:
millie wrote:
as kinked out as i am...honesty is still the best policy....all the way.


...why do you have to be twice my age?



stop this....stop it...!



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06 Mar 2009, 1:36 pm

Haliphron wrote:
Perhaps men really do have a valid reason to be distrustful of women and even attempt to control womens sexuality; because many of them get a thrill out of cheating and will do it when they get the chance. :idea:


men have been controlling women sexuality for centuries.....

Refer to religions....



Haliphron
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06 Mar 2009, 2:45 pm

LePetitPrince wrote:
Haliphron wrote:
Perhaps men really do have a valid reason to be distrustful of women and even attempt to control womens sexuality; because many of them get a thrill out of cheating and will do it when they get the chance. :idea:


men have been controlling women sexuality for centuries.....

Refer to religions....


The incentive behind such is that men want something from women and only a handful of men are so desirable that women actively want them back....and still those men who can manipulate women emotionally arent necessarily the majority. BTW LePetitePrince, do you have the URL for your essay on monogamy and how it conflicts with womens (biological)interests? :wink:



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06 Mar 2009, 3:08 pm

This reminds me so much of D1nko's arguments on reasons why women should have no natural rights and such in many relationships and roles.... :?


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06 Mar 2009, 3:27 pm

MissConstrue wrote:
This reminds me so much of D1nko's arguments on reasons why women should have no natural rights and such in many relationships and roles.... :?


Well what I wrote above was not a justification, but an explanation of the motives behind why men try to control women. Having power coincides with responsibility and Id rather have someone who is loyal and faithful than have to constantly be waging an emotional tug-of-war with a woman who is capricious and self-indulgent.
But sometimes I really feel inclined to believe that true equality in human relationships is the exception and not the norm. And this applies to voluntary relationships as well. Ive read all these stories about marriages that end badly because of an ongoing power struggle between husband and wife. But MissConstrue, sometimes(more often than you think)its the WOMAN who is the dominate one in the relationship and who wields control through manipulation. My last relationship ended because the woman was constantly trying to control me through her manipulative behaviour.



Last edited by Haliphron on 06 Mar 2009, 3:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.