05 Mar 2009, 2:44 am
iamnotaparakeet
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05 Mar 2009, 4:55 pm
iamnotaparakeet
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05 Mar 2009, 5:26 pm
05 Mar 2009, 5:34 pm
iamnotaparakeet
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05 Mar 2009, 6:35 pm
05 Mar 2009, 6:41 pm
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
On to the main topic though:
I see two main options here, and they are both an issue of authority, either proper or improper authority. Whether the person or persons who set the rules are qualified to make them.
1) God exists and He is the designer and creator of the universes, He would have the knowledge and wisdom to give instructions to the things he has made as to how they should operate.
2) If God does not exist, then beings who somehow exist must make rules up for themselves, if they are indeed to have rules at all.
They are limited in knowledge by the physical constraints of their minds, limited in wisdom by their desires and ambitions. Their grasp of understanding of physical laws is limited to what they have been taught by other beings and what is allowed to learn by research and what limited aspects they can research given the constraints their body and length of lifespan.
Books are only helpful to the extent that they are read, trusted, and understood, so records of research or historical observation are limited in their usefulness to the extent that they can be read in an amount of time, understood linguistically, and whether or not they are considered trustworthy or culturally acceptable. Even with all the collected knowledge available in literary history or current research, more knowledge still exists to be found. {Some people question whether knowledge exists-> good for them but it helps nobody but them if even them.}
The amount of knowledge a person has may be useful and relevant to the current situation they face, but even if they know the optimum application of knowledge, they may still choose a different solution based on their own motives. Whether it is a choice on how to spend ones own resources, or the resources of a nation, their own motives come into play. Also the case when it comes to making rules for themselves and for others, if they are the highest authority they feel they are accountable to (whether by "the Divine Right Of Kings" so called, or whether they don't accept God at all) then their rules are most likely going to be made with little consideration for others, such as those of King John of England, signer of the Magna Carta by force.
My point is that a Creator and Designer would have the knowledge and wisdom to tell His creation, the things that He had designed and made, how they should operate, whereas beings on their own cannot have such knowledge or wisdom.
I see two main options here, and they are both an issue of authority, either proper or improper authority. Whether the person or persons who set the rules are qualified to make them.
1) God exists and He is the designer and creator of the universes, He would have the knowledge and wisdom to give instructions to the things he has made as to how they should operate.
2) If God does not exist, then beings who somehow exist must make rules up for themselves, if they are indeed to have rules at all.
They are limited in knowledge by the physical constraints of their minds, limited in wisdom by their desires and ambitions. Their grasp of understanding of physical laws is limited to what they have been taught by other beings and what is allowed to learn by research and what limited aspects they can research given the constraints their body and length of lifespan.
Books are only helpful to the extent that they are read, trusted, and understood, so records of research or historical observation are limited in their usefulness to the extent that they can be read in an amount of time, understood linguistically, and whether or not they are considered trustworthy or culturally acceptable. Even with all the collected knowledge available in literary history or current research, more knowledge still exists to be found. {Some people question whether knowledge exists-> good for them but it helps nobody but them if even them.}
The amount of knowledge a person has may be useful and relevant to the current situation they face, but even if they know the optimum application of knowledge, they may still choose a different solution based on their own motives. Whether it is a choice on how to spend ones own resources, or the resources of a nation, their own motives come into play. Also the case when it comes to making rules for themselves and for others, if they are the highest authority they feel they are accountable to (whether by "the Divine Right Of Kings" so called, or whether they don't accept God at all) then their rules are most likely going to be made with little consideration for others, such as those of King John of England, signer of the Magna Carta by force.
My point is that a Creator and Designer would have the knowledge and wisdom to tell His creation, the things that He had designed and made, how they should operate, whereas beings on their own cannot have such knowledge or wisdom.
You Havent addressed the question of how the creator HIMself(assuming that God has a penis/Y chromosome
)
came into being. Futhermore, knowledge and wisdom are things that can be ACQUIRED. Reason is what enabled humans to develop science and continually increase our knowledge of ourselves and the Universe around us. The moral "rules" we have developed are perfectly explainable given human history and our ability to come up with new philosophical ideas; some of which have WORKED. Thats what happened when the authors of the bible wrote it! They thought these things up(which REALLY arent that hard to do)and claimed that this mythical being named God inspired them.
iamnotaparakeet
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05 Mar 2009, 6:44 pm
Haliphron wrote:
The moral "rules" we have developed are perfectly explainable given human history and our ability to come up with new philosophical ideas; some of which have WORKED. Thats what happened when the authors of the bible wrote it! They thought these things up(which REALLY arent that hard to do)and claimed that this mythical being named God inspired them.
Prove it, without begging the question.
On my side I present the Levitical laws of cleanliness, dietary restrictions, and circumcision, as well as fulfilled prophecies concerning Tyre and Christ.
Last edited by iamnotaparakeet on 05 Mar 2009, 6:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
05 Mar 2009, 6:45 pm
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Haliphron wrote:
The moral "rules" we have developed are perfectly explainable given human history and our ability to come up with new philosophical ideas; some of which have WORKED. Thats what happened when the authors of the bible wrote it! They thought these things up(which REALLY arent that hard to do)and claimed that this mythical being named God inspired them.
Prove it, without begging the question.
Can YOU prove that God exists in the first place? That is, whith physical evidence??
iamnotaparakeet
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05 Mar 2009, 6:48 pm
Haliphron wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Haliphron wrote:
The moral "rules" we have developed are perfectly explainable given human history and our ability to come up with new philosophical ideas; some of which have WORKED. Thats what happened when the authors of the bible wrote it! They thought these things up(which REALLY arent that hard to do)and claimed that this mythical being named God inspired them.
Prove it, without begging the question.
Can YOU prove that God exists in the first place? That is, whith physical evidence??
With historical evidence. The same that would have Alexander the Great and Nebuchadnezzar as real individuals.
iamnotaparakeet
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05 Mar 2009, 6:49 pm
05 Mar 2009, 6:51 pm
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Haliphron wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Haliphron wrote:
The moral "rules" we have developed are perfectly explainable given human history and our ability to come up with new philosophical ideas; some of which have WORKED. Thats what happened when the authors of the bible wrote it! They thought these things up(which REALLY arent that hard to do)and claimed that this mythical being named God inspired them.
Prove it, without begging the question.
Can YOU prove that God exists in the first place? That is, whith physical evidence??
With historical evidence. The same that would have Alexander the Great and Nebuchadnezzar as real individuals.
WHAT historical evidence do you have the proves beyond a reasonable doub that God exists and STILL DOES exist???
If morals come from God the Only way that Im going to believe that sh*t is for God himself to speak TO ME, not through any other person, that this is so.
iamnotaparakeet
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05 Mar 2009, 6:52 pm
Haliphron wrote:
You Havent addressed the question of how the creator HIMself(assuming that God has a penis/Y chromosome )
came into being.
)came into being.
Do you actually have to know something's or someone's origin before accepting they exist?
05 Mar 2009, 6:53 pm
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Haliphron wrote:
You Havent addressed the question of how the creator HIMself(assuming that God has a penis/Y chromosome )
came into being.
)came into being.
Do you actually have to know something or someone's origin before accepting they exist?
Well, its that OR this something demonstrates for me personally that it exists.
iamnotaparakeet
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05 Mar 2009, 6:54 pm
05 Mar 2009, 7:47 pm
05 Mar 2009, 7:48 pm
