Another hate group rises in the guise of "support group

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misslottie
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07 Mar 2009, 7:43 am

wow, incredibly offensive and agree- very worrying. anyone googling a.s could come across this vitriol and have their preconceptions shaped by it.
nasty.

i know there are some hackers on wp- might they not like to let their fingers do the talking and walk along to this website???



Woodpecker
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07 Mar 2009, 8:06 am

misslottie wrote:
wow, incredibly offensive and agree- very worrying. anyone googling a.s could come across this vitriol and have their preconceptions shaped by it.
nasty.

i know there are some hackers on wp- might they not like to let their fingers do the talking and walk along to this website???


Bad idea !

Firstly if a angry vengeful mob of aspies go on a rampage against their site it will play right into their hands.

Secondly, if you are having such thoughts then for goodness sake do not discuss them in public.

Assuming we can never use the legal action route to shut the group up, our best method is likely to make them look stupid and bigoted, I think that if we play our cards right we could make them look like real bozos and bigots.


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dadum
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07 Mar 2009, 8:14 am

Danielismyname wrote:
It's wrong to apply it to everyone with AS, but I've seen what she's talking about (well, lived it).

Having read it, she's actually not applying it to everyone with AS in the text, and I don't see hate; this following is dead on with my father (it couldn't be explained better):


This is a common mistake that lets trough various forms of bigotry, wether it is about colour, disability or whatever doesn't matter, it applies to all humans.
"Oh yes, these <black/disabled/gay> people are so annoying, they are stealing our jobs and our wealth"
"Did I say I hate black/disabled/gay people?? I don't hate all of them!"
You have got the logic right Daniel, but unfortunately the consequences of saying that "Autistics may be dangerous" won't go away. Btw autistics aren't dangerous and no one should be thaught so.

Quote:
When the parent tries to mediate, intervene or
reason with the other parent, the other parent may either be forced into more
withdrawal or shutdown, or they may react with aggression and accusations of attacking
them, criticising, shaming them or being disloyal. The parent is left with few or
no options and in most cases experiences the same feelings of rejection and abuse that the
children experience. In some situations the other parent may actively engage in turning
family members against each other, or intimidating family members into isolation.


I edited the bold parts, this text is about married couples, not about asperger.



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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07 Mar 2009, 8:17 am

There's people who have had bad experiences with Aspies but I have had sooooo many bad experiences with people in general. You can apply a lot of what's listed by the OP to the people I have to deal with everyday who are not AS. This is what confuses me. It seems like so many people act like this anyway. It's a worldwide human epidemic. I doubt very seriously if they are all Aspies.

Quote:
retaliatory or controlling nature, the child may experience regular criticism, correction,
condescending comments in the form of mocking and put-downs, verbal abuse, rage and
sometimes physical abuse in the form of heavy-handed corporal punishment, lashing out and
striking,

Pretty much that's the story of my childhood right there and I am pretty sure my mom doesn't have AS and she's the one who raised me. I was around people who had a basic philosophy toward me. They percieved me as badly behaved and awkward at times, so they thought if they punished me enough I would stop and straighten up and act like everyone else. They had a poor understanding of me.
One thing I notice about some people's nature is that, in their minds, they will justify anything. They make up an excuse that justifies their horrible behaviour and, in their own minds, they tell themselves that behaviour is somehow alright. Horrible behaviour is horrible behaviour no matter what the excuse, imo.



Last edited by ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo on 07 Mar 2009, 8:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

ephemerella
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07 Mar 2009, 8:25 am

This is how someone who hates AS people would perceive them. If you hated cheerleaders, you wouldn't describe their good sides, just ridicule them as shallow, ignorant, gossiping, emotional vampires narcissistically focused on getting admiration and attention for their appearance.

The description of AS below describes them in a hostile, negative spin, as seen through the eyes of hate and hostility.

Danielismyname wrote:
Funny thing, the first part of that first quote explains my father [who has AS] perfectly, except it lacks "laws are of no importance to said individual, rather, they are for everyone else".

There's some people with Asperger's, and I mean a statistically significant portion, who really suck (I mean, they're worst than the "normal" people who suck). Perhaps a personality type when it's attached to AS makes these individuals.

It's wrong to apply it to everyone with AS, but I've seen what she's talking about (well, lived it).

Having read it, she's actually not applying it to everyone with AS in the text, and I don't see hate; this following is dead on with my father (it couldn't be explained better):

Quote:
The person with Asperger's Syndrome seems completely lacking of insight into the impact
that their behaviours, words or neglect are having on family members and they will deny any
mistake or wrongdoing, tending rather to blame the partner or child for causing the situation or
being unjust in their accusation. When the non-Asperger parent tries to mediate, intervene or
reason with the Asperger parent, the Asperger parent may either be forced into more
withdrawal or shutdown, or they may react with aggression and accusations of attacking
them, criticising, shaming them or being disloyal. The non-Asperger parent is left with few or
no options and in most cases experiences the same feelings of rejection and abuse that the
children experience. In some situations the Asperger parent may actively engage in turning
family members against each other, or intimidating family members into isolation.



dadum
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07 Mar 2009, 8:38 am

Let's assume there is no link between Asperger and Sociopathy:
.DSM-IV tells me that 2% of the population are Sociopaths(APD)
.The Swedish National Autism Society tells me 0.4-0.5% of the population have asperger.
With help of some basic math, that would make:
USA: 30 000 Aspie Sociopaths
UK: 6000 Aspie Sociopaths

.Studies refered to by Dr Tony Atwood shows that aspie males are 3% likely to commit a violent assault, while non-autistic males are 7% likely.
With that into account:
USA: 13 000 Aspie Sociopaths
UK: 3000 Aspie Sociopaths

Newspapers have plenty to choose from, they seem to love to write about this minor part of population and think asperger has something to do with it.
I know these are very round numbers, but don't be fooled....



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07 Mar 2009, 9:40 am

I think that a lot of it has to do with ignorance of the general population.

You need to remember that not ALL of these men that FAAAS and ASPIA are refering to are officially diagnosed. Most of them aren't. Most of them don't think they have AS, but their wives/ex-wives certainly think that. It could be that these women don't understand the difference between "controlling, distant, abusive husband" and someone with AS. They misinterpret the DSM, and think that "lack of empathy" means "being an abusive jerk". If their husband happens to be an abusive jerk, then they have this convenient 'mental disorder' to place on their husbands and make themselves look like even bigger victims in the eyes of their friends.

"Celebrity doctors" like Tony Attwood take full advantage of this phenomenon. Tons of shrews willing to buy his books, and let's face it: Parents and spouses of people with AS (or suspected AS) are bigger markets than the actual people with AS themselves. Most people with AS don't care to read official books on the subject, simply because they've heard it all before.



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07 Mar 2009, 10:18 am

I am getting fed up with neurotypicals saying thwt we are more prone to violence. If anyone thinks that just look outside any pub on a Friday or Saturday night you see neurotypicals acting like prats or being violent when pissed as farts. Actually being a neurotypical makes one more prone to violence and hate especially those NTs at the lower end of the Bell curve of intellectual ability. These actually go out to look for Asperger syndrome people to beat up especially after a few beers or a few lines of coke or. some other illegal drug. People should stop saying this about us aspies and get their facts right and stop lying about Aspies. I know an Aspie woman who is a lovely person who would not harm a fly so why do neurotypicals not get their facts right? :arrow:



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07 Mar 2009, 10:26 am

Another hate site created by rich yuppies who expect everybody to be like them, and especially their lovers. First there was Autism Speaks and now there's this. I wonder how many people on that so-called support site beat and abuse their AS partners. They probably all do that. The way that a battered person responds is by using violence, themselves. Now they have to twist it all around and blame the aspies, when they're the ones in the wrong. I think that many NTs hate us, because we're different from them. If they find out that you're on the spectrum, they hate you even more.


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07 Mar 2009, 10:58 am

What bugs me is that they're describing people who behave badly, which happens, but they're calling it AS, when it's got nothing to do with AS. Their approach means someone who is like that but not AS is more likely to get away with it, because "he's one of us".

I mean, the description reminds me of my dad, but he's not AS. He is, however, a rather old-fashioned husband and father.

It's the behaviour that's the problem, not the diagnosis (real or not).



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07 Mar 2009, 11:02 am

Katie_WPG wrote:
"Celebrity doctors" like Tony Attwood take full advantage of this phenomenon. Tons of shrews willing to buy his books, and let's face it: Parents and spouses of people with AS (or suspected AS) are bigger markets than the actual people with AS themselves. Most people with AS don't care to read official books on the subject, simply because they've heard it all before.

They try to make the person with AS into the bad guy and the one without AS is the "good guy". That's why I mistrust the theraputic process. I wonder what good is this? I've already been through this; I am the bad one when someone is hitting me? Makes no sense at all.



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07 Mar 2009, 11:46 am

Katie_WPG wrote:
I think that a lot of it has to do with ignorance of the general population.

"Celebrity doctors" like Tony Attwood take full advantage of this phenomenon. Tons of shrews willing to buy his books, and let's face it: Parents and spouses of people with AS (or suspected AS) are bigger markets than the actual people with AS themselves. Most people with AS don't care to read official books on the subject, simply because they've heard it all before.


Good point. The medical community has run into a (for them) very unexpected problem with Aspies.
a) Aspies understand their 'disorder' better than the doctor.
b) They like their head screwed on just the way it is, thank you very much.

So the doctor turns to the family, "Anyone need an expert? Anyone at all?"



normally_impaired
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07 Mar 2009, 11:55 am

I was gonna join their bulletin board, only to find that I need to pay 9 bucks to join, Autism Speaks isn't even that cheap, WTF?



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07 Mar 2009, 12:06 pm

The really worrisome thing to me is this new generation of diagnosed Aspies.

a 15 year old Aspie (finally!) gets a boy/girlfriend. The b/girlfriend googles Asperger's and discovers this information. Now the teen has to answer for it, or possible just get dumped because of it.

It really hurts people. This is badness.

I'm,reminded of a song by The Smiths,

Quote:
I am the son, and the heir
Of a shyness that is criminally vulgar
I am the son and heir
Of nothing in particular

You shut your mouth
How can you say
I go about things the wrong way?

I am human and I need to be loved.
Just like everybody else does.


How Soon is Now? -- The Smiths



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07 Mar 2009, 1:54 pm

VMSnith wrote:
Katie_WPG wrote:
I think that a lot of it has to do with ignorance of the general population.

"Celebrity doctors" like Tony Attwood take full advantage of this phenomenon. Tons of shrews willing to buy his books, and let's face it: Parents and spouses of people with AS (or suspected AS) are bigger markets than the actual people with AS themselves. Most people with AS don't care to read official books on the subject, simply because they've heard it all before.


Good point. The medical community has run into a (for them) very unexpected problem with Aspies.
a) Aspies understand their 'disorder' better than the doctor.
b) They like their head screwed on just the way it is, thank you very much.

So the doctor turns to the family, "Anyone need an expert? Anyone at all?"


Yeah, he was rather slippery. Being in bed with FAAAS, and then just moving to the Austrailian version when he was chewed out by the AS community. He's looking to sell books, not be clinically responsible.