Another hate group rises in the guise of "support group

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Callista
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07 Mar 2009, 3:50 pm

Well, obviously there are Aspie jerks. There are NT jerks, too. But saying we're all that way, or any more likely to be so, is false. Communication problems, yes. But willful meanness, lack of empathy, or total lack of desire to understand people you married? No, that's not an Aspie. That's a sociopath.


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Sallamandrina
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07 Mar 2009, 4:09 pm

VMSnith wrote:
from the Aspia site

Quote:
Family members describe the Asperger person as appearing to be completely self-centred
and unable to acknowledge or display awareness of the individual thoughts, feelings,
interests, preferences, abilities, stages and needs of individual family members, which
necessarily need to be incorporated into the daily functioning, flow and decisions of family life.
As a result, the children of the family can feel quite neglected, rejected, of no importance to
the Asperger parent, and quite cruelly treated, or that they can never achieve their admiration,
attention or love. All their efforts to reach out to the parent or perform well at school or at
home seem unnoticed and unaffirmed. If the Asperger parent is of a more aggressive,
retaliatory or controlling nature, the child may experience regular criticism, correction,
condescending comments in the form of mocking and put-downs, verbal abuse, rage and
sometimes physical abuse in the form of heavy-handed corporal punishment, lashing out and
striking, or other more secretly inflicted pain such as twisting or squeezing certain limbs or
muscles.



Most of this also fits my father word for word, and he's definitely not an aspie.


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AmberEyes
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07 Mar 2009, 4:22 pm

Quote:
Family members describe the Asperger person as appearing to be completely self-centred
and unable to acknowledge or display awareness of the individual thoughts, feelings,
interests, preferences, abilities, stages and needs of individual family members, which
necessarily need to be incorporated into the daily functioning, flow and decisions of family life.


Disagree with this.
I know plenty of very self centred people who meet this discription and care about me a lot. I didn't honestly know that people had to "tick all of the boxes" and "be aware of feelings" as suggested above. It's odd because I love these people back and simply didn't know that they "had to" do all these things mentioned above in order to be loved and loved back. I'm actually fine with the above if it's dealt with using humour. I've had to live with it and it honestly wasn't a problem until others said it was a problem.

Some people are naturally seem awkward and difficult to deal with to some people, but that doesn't mean that these people can't contribute or love in their own ways. It doesn't mean that these people aren't fantastic fun and amazing to be around.

Quote:
As a result, the children of the family can feel quite neglected, rejected, of no importance to
the Asperger parent, and quite cruelly treated, or that they can never achieve their admiration,
attention or love. All their efforts to reach out to the parent or perform well at school or at
home seem unnoticed and unaffirmed. If the Asperger parent is of a more...controlling nature, the child may experience regular criticism, correction,
condescending comments in the form of mocking and put-downs,


Um yeah, but I'm still loved, just in a different way that's all.
Is that really so hard to understand.
If I hadn't had regular criticism I wouldn't have done nearly as well in school, so in retrospect, I'm incredibly grateful for this criticism!

Not all families are the same.
Sometimes people have to be pushed in order to succeed.
What about useful practical support and guidance?
I've had plenty of useful support from people like this: they're not monsters.



mechanima
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07 Mar 2009, 5:14 pm

VMSnith wrote:
We've got another FAAAS - this time in Australia. And this time potentially more dangerous.
Called ASPIA.


My god, it even sounds like a new venereal disease.


VMSnith wrote:
This ASPIA group is scarier. Karen Rodman of FAAAS had the writing skills of an inebriated dyslexic teenager, and made little effort to temper her venom.


Be fair now, to the best of my knowledge, Karen Rodman is usually inebriated...she probably can't help it?

As for the rest, I SWEAR you can just send of for your "hate group kit", fill in the condition of your choice, upload, and you are good to go...because all these hate groups say EXACTLY the same thing whichever disorder they are targetting...

It never dawns on them, that, alone, is a form of circumstantial evidence that they may be the truly "abnormal" ones...as everybody else is out of step, in exactly the same way, but them.



Sallamandrina
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07 Mar 2009, 5:26 pm

mechanima wrote:
VMSnith wrote:
We've got another FAAAS - this time in Australia. And this time potentially more dangerous.
Called ASPIA.


My god, it even sounds like a new venereal disease.


:lmao:


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ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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07 Mar 2009, 5:45 pm

VMSnith wrote:
The really worrisome thing to me is this new generation of diagnosed Aspies.

a 15 year old Aspie (finally!) gets a boy/girlfriend. The b/girlfriend googles Asperger's and discovers this information. Now the teen has to answer for it, or possible just get dumped because of it.


It really hurts people. This is badness.

I'm,reminded of a song by The Smiths,

Quote:
I am the son, and the heir
Of a shyness that is criminally vulgar
I am the son and heir
Of nothing in particular

You shut your mouth
How can you say
I go about things the wrong way?

I am human and I need to be loved.
Just like everybody else does.


How Soon is Now? -- The Smiths


We would be better off getting advice on how to handle people who don't know we have AS and when it's alright to let people know the diagnosis. I wouldn't tell anyone anything until they knew me really well and trusted who I was. That way a positive image would be in their minds.



VMSnith
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08 Mar 2009, 12:59 am

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:

We would be better off getting advice on how to handle people who don't know we have AS and when it's alright to let people know the diagnosis. I wouldn't tell anyone anything until they knew me really well and trusted who I was. That way a positive image would be in their minds.


I agree, Ana. As long as this public dehumanization of AS persists, I think each Aspie should consider withholding that info.

Especially teens, who have a hard enuf time fitting in already.



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08 Mar 2009, 1:22 am

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:

We would be better off getting advice on how to handle people who don't know we have AS and when it's alright to let people know the diagnosis. I wouldn't tell anyone anything until they knew me really well and trusted who I was. That way a positive image would be in their minds.


I agree, Ana. As long as this public dehumanization of AS persists, I think each Aspie should consider withholding that info.

Especially teens, who have a hard enuf time fitting in already.



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08 Mar 2009, 1:55 am

Katie_WPG wrote:
"Celebrity doctors" like Tony Attwood take full advantage of this phenomenon. Tons of shrews willing to buy his books, and let's face it: Parents and spouses of people with AS (or suspected AS) are bigger markets than the actual people with AS themselves. Most people with AS don't care to read official books on the subject, simply because they've heard it all before.


Tony Attwood is a good guy, I think it is sad that some people like Maxine Aston have tried to latch onto Tony. Tony is far higher up the food chain than Ms Aston.

I think that the best thing would be if people here were to write polite letters to Tony Attwood asking him to disassociate himself from ASPIA, FAAAS and Maxine Aston.

I would suggest that Tony Attwood should have a policy of refusing to have any dealings with the hate groups.


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VMSnith
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08 Mar 2009, 2:24 am

Woodpecker wrote:
Katie_WPG wrote:

I think that the best thing would be if people here were to write polite letters to Tony Attwood asking him to disassociate himself from ASPIA, FAAAS and Maxine Aston.

I would suggest that Tony Attwood should have a policy of refusing to have any dealings with the hate groups.


I think that's a good idea. Organizations like ASPIA can only persist as long as Aspies are willing to keep silent.

Attwood's already gotten an earful regarding FAAAS (USA) and Maxine Aston (UK).
He has since stopped collaborating with them.

Maybe now it's time he heard what ppl think about ASPIA.

On a side note, think how much good a *real* support group for loved-ones of Aspies
could be? One that - gasp! - invited both the Aspie and the NT partner, that focussed on shared humanity and bridging the differences of neurology?

When we oppose these hate groups we help clear the way for real sources of support to emerge.



mechanima
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08 Mar 2009, 7:40 am

Woodpecker wrote:
I think that the best thing would be if people here were to write polite letters to Tony Attwood asking him to disassociate himself from ASPIA, FAAAS and Maxine Aston.

I would suggest that Tony Attwood should have a policy of refusing to have any dealings with the hate groups.


That is an excellent idea. People already have written to Tony Attwood asking him to disassociate himself from, at least, FAAAS (not sure about Maxine Aston?), and he has done so.

M.



Danielismyname
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08 Mar 2009, 7:47 am

Callista wrote:
Communication problems, yes. But willful meanness, lack of empathy, or total lack of desire to understand people you married? No, that's not an Aspie. That's a sociopath.


Problem. Marked egocentricity, a lack of empathy, the inability to relate to others, a lack of insight, etcetera, are all symptoms of AS; wilful meanness is a symptom of humanity. The former can appear as meanness to people, even if it's not intended*.

*Herein lies the axiom.



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08 Mar 2009, 8:05 am

"The person with Asperger's Syndrome seems completely lacking of insight into the impact
that their behaviours, words or neglect are having on family members and they will deny any
mistake or wrongdoing",


"Deny any wrongdoing"

sociopathic.




tending rather to blame the partner or child for causing the situation or
being unjust in their accusation.

sociopathic-like


When the non-Asperger parent tries to mediate, intervene or
reason with the Asperger parent, the Asperger parent may either be forced into more
withdrawal or shutdown, or they may react with aggression and accusations of attacking
them, criticising, shaming them or being disloyal.

Aspie-like with withdrawl or shutdown.



The non-Asperger parent is left with few or
no options and in most cases experiences the same feelings of rejection and abuse that the
children experience.


In some situations the Asperger parent may actively engage in turning
family members against each other, or intimidating family members into isolation.


Sociopathic-like


I'm noticing a trend to try to associate sociopath with aspergers. Anyone else see it too?



kittenmeow
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08 Mar 2009, 8:07 am

Danielismyname wrote:
Callista wrote:
Communication problems, yes. But willful meanness, lack of empathy, or total lack of desire to understand people you married? No, that's not an Aspie. That's a sociopath.


Problem. Marked egocentricity, a lack of empathy, the inability to relate to others, a lack of insight, etcetera, are all symptoms of AS; wilful meanness is a symptom of humanity. The former can appear as meanness to people, even if it's not intended*.

*Herein lies the axiom.


Actually, lack of empathy is also found in sociopaths.




Glibness and Superficial Charm


Manipulative and Conning
They never recognize the rights of others and see their self-serving behaviors as permissible. They appear to be charming, yet are covertly hostile and domineering, seeing their victim as merely an instrument to be used. They may dominate and humiliate their victims.


Grandiose Sense of Self
Feels entitled to certain things as "their right."


Pathological Lying
Has no problem lying coolly and easily and it is almost impossible for them to be truthful on a consistent basis. Can create, and get caught up in, a complex belief about their own powers and abilities. Extremely convincing and even able to pass lie detector tests.


Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt
A deep seated rage, which is split off and repressed, is at their core. Does not see others around them as people, but only as targets and opportunities. Instead of friends, they have victims and accomplices who end up as victims. The end always justifies the means and they let nothing stand in their way.


Shallow Emotions
When they show what seems to be warmth, joy, love and compassion it is more feigned than experienced and serves an ulterior motive. Outraged by insignificant matters, yet remaining unmoved and cold by what would upset a normal person. Since they are not genuine, neither are their promises.


Incapacity for Love


Need for Stimulation
Living on the edge. Verbal outbursts and physical punishments are normal. Promiscuity and gambling are common.


Callousness/Lack of Empathy
Unable to empathize with the pain of their victims, having only contempt for others' feelings of distress and readily taking advantage of them.


Poor Behavioral Controls/Impulsive Nature
Rage and abuse, alternating with small expressions of love and approval produce an addictive cycle for abuser and abused, as well as creating hopelessness in the victim. Believe they are all-powerful, all-knowing, entitled to every wish, no sense of personal boundaries, no concern for their impact on others.


Early Behavior Problems/Juvenile Delinquency
Usually has a history of behavioral and academic difficulties, yet "gets by" by conning others. Problems in making and keeping friends; aberrant behaviors such as cruelty to people or animals, stealing, etc.


Irresponsibility/Unreliability
Not concerned about wrecking others' lives and dreams. Oblivious or indifferent to the devastation they cause. Does not accept blame themselves, but blames others, even for acts they obviously committed.


Promiscuous Sexual Behavior/Infidelity
Promiscuity, child sexual abuse, rape and sexual acting out of all sorts.


Lack of Realistic Life Plan/Parasitic Lifestyle
Tends to move around a lot or makes all encompassing promises for the future, poor work ethic but exploits others effectively.


Criminal or Entrepreneurial Versatility
Changes their image as needed to avoid prosecution. Changes life story readily.



Danielismyname
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08 Mar 2009, 8:49 am

In this context and generally, the person with Asperger's will fail to see how their actions affect others (egocentricity and a lack of insight), whereas the person with sociopathy will enjoy actions that hurt and belittle others. There's a problem with this, as the effect can seem to be the same at first glance, and it's easy to confuse the two.