The abortion debate

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Ok then, but how is it that you understand such metaphorical language yet it is common in autistic individuals not to?

I really couldn't say. I have never been diagnosed but I find the conversation at this site far more interesting than any other site I have accessed.
Perhaps I'm a screwed up NT. It's been discovered that the human brain is not matured until the early twenties. You have a ways to go. I am well over five times your age. Perhaps that makes a difference. (This is not to comment on your intelligence which seems to me to be at least equal to mine if not better).

I thank you for the complement, but I do not value the intelligence of myself, as valueing ones own intellect often comes up rather stuck up in conversations
And I suppose it does depend on the individual, I for example do not understand metaphors, but given the wide variety in the spectrum you very well may do, and as far as you are acting in discussions I would say you are atleast some form of autism, of course that is opinion but as far as a comparison to others on this site you do act similar, and yes you are very good to discuss such matters with

It was not a compliment. At your age I did not have your grasp of the topics we discuss. It was an evaluation and as much a part of you as having a big toe or a nose and I merely accept my physiology and psychological capability as something that is merely me but no source of pride. Nevertheless I appreciate having a nose.

That's not what religion is about.


It only concerns women specifically because there is no high-tech incubator machine that could take the fetus, and because men can't get pregnant, despite everything you see in Arnold Schwarzenegger films.


They do.


Why not? People who adopt generally want kids.


My grandfather fought in WWII. He was in a column marching along, when a mine went off in front of him. There was only one man in front of him, who was instantly killed. He was wearing a huge, clunky, 1940's era radio on his chest. If the man in front of him and the radio hadn't taken the majority of the schrapnel, he would have died too. This happened before my dad was born. So if things had been slightly different, I would never have been born.

I never thought I shouldn't exist, rather felt lucky to be here.


Despite not being a fundamentalist, I have to strongly object to the word "fundie". Obnoxious insults don't win arguments, they just piss off the other side.

My opinion on the death penalty is somewhat complex, but I don't think that executing the very worst of criminals is morally wrong. Sometimes the way it works out in practice is far from ideal, however, so I am sympathetic with most of the anti-death penalty arguments.

I'm not sure why you would think that's hypocritical.

Religious fundamentalism is a form of insanity. People who say they believe the world is 6000 years old are either liars or deluded.

As to the second point I agree. I have now love for wicked murderers and sex offenders, but the application of the death penalty is fraught with error and inequity. For safety's sake I would prefer penal colonies like Devils Island to separate the incorrigible wicked from the rest of us.

ruveyn

You want to know why that is hypocritical? Well lets look at it shall we, you want no abortions because of the right to live, yet you say that those very worst criminals can be killed without any major moral implications? Doesn't that seem a little contradictive to you? After all, it is far better to truly punish a man then let him escape with mere death, which just provides a quick escape from having to live with himself and suffer daily for what he has done, that is punishment, the other problem with it is again the fact that the human mind is so fragile, one slight over influencing on one way or another can destroy a certain sense of morality, as it does with a great deal of rapists and murderers, for I sincerely doubt the capability of a truly sane human being to willfully end the life of another, I know that I would never do such a thing.

And to respond to your part about WWII and your grandfather, that isn't the same, being born because of chance is what everyone has been through, you could have come out millions of other ways but the sperm containing your genetics reached the egg, for all I know you could have turned out neurotypical and wouldn't even be on these forums, neither would I if the same had happened to myself, whereas being born when your parents didn't want you means that a concious decision was made about you existing, and if they didn't want it and didn't get an abortion because of religious beliefs or otherwise, that child truly is unwanted and should not have existed, because if the other way had happened and religion didn't influence the choice, then the child would never be born and would never have to come to terms with his own existence, atleast not in the terms that I am thinking of, after all, everyone comes to terms with their own existence, one way or another.

One half of your argument is trying to establish that evil people can't be held responsible for their actions because they must not be able to help it, the other half seems disgusted at the idea of the death penalty because it lets them off too easily. That seems more contradictory to me.

I don't see any contradiction between being pro-life and pro-death penalty. Those who get the death penalty have earned it, the unborn are completely innocent.


I still don't see how being a person who resulted from an accidental and unwanted pregnancy is somehow damaging. I think it matters a great deal more whether the parents love the child and do their best to raise it right. Whether its conception happened on purpose or not is irrelevant.

i really dont care. my philosophy is if it does not directly affect me why should i care? and i agree a fetus is a potential person it is not conciously aware till farther along the line, so to speak. i am an atheist so that may influence this but hey, im mr logic

connor, just a hint, never bring logic into a religious arguement, it doesn't help

Yes it does. It shows that religion is intellectually bankrupt. Fit only idiots and young children.

ruveyn

Well, your attitude certainly doesn't help.

I have to agree, as much as I do think that religion is stupid, its just bringing up logical arguements usually don't come into the atheists favour, depending of course on how overtly religious the person is, i've noticed if they are less religious they seem to realise, even if not fully, that what you say is logical, but for example, when talking with a christian at my school and pointing out that in the christian belief the universe should be more good than evil due to the god > devil thing, but he refused to listen, he just said that it is balanced and that I should read the bible, which wasn't any part of what I was saying

I've got a question for anyone who is prolife and wants to make abortion illegal:

I've helped scores of women get abortions. Whether it's directing them to the local planned parenthood, advising them on finding an abortion doctor, or giving them transportation to the clinic through a friend or trusted someone, as well as volunteering at said clinics. In your point of view then, if you had your way on abortion's legality, would I be arrested and put in jail as an accomplice to murder? Just rather curious.

I'm sorry to hear that.


No.

Two reasons: First, given that society in general has no problem with it and doesn't consider the fetus to be human (and that you agree with society in general) means that you don't think it's wrong. Second, the law allows it now, so any future law that might ban it is not yet in effect. (Retroactive laws are a really bad idea.)