Page 3 of 4 [ 59 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

ruveyn
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Age: 84
Gender: Male
Posts: 31,502
Location: New Jersey

17 Mar 2009, 9:34 am

twoshots wrote:
That makes sense only if there does not exist legal recourse to coerce the father to tend to the offspring.


I was thinking of the father claiming custodial rights and visitation rights to the child.

ruveyn



monkees4va
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 2 Sep 2008
Age: 28
Gender: Female
Posts: 379
Location: Scotland

18 Mar 2009, 10:05 am

I suppose, in the same wayanother way of looking at it is if the father doesn't want the child. It may seem cruel, but its the same princible. What happens if he doesn't want the child and insists on abortion, but the mother does? same argument, but it does put things into perspective


_________________
I'm a girl people!
"Do or do not; there is no try." -Yoda
Your Aspie score: 157 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 65 of 200
You are very likely an Aspie


Chibi_Neko
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 23 Oct 2007
Age: 38
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,485
Location: Newfoundland, Canada

20 Mar 2009, 4:31 pm

monkees4va wrote:
What happens if he doesn't want the child and insists on abortion, but the mother does? same argument, but it does put things into perspective


It would not matter. The fetus is in her body, not his. She calls the shots.


_________________
Humans are intelligent, but that doesn't make them smart.


phil777
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 20 May 2008
Age: 34
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,825
Location: Montreal, Québec

20 Mar 2009, 4:59 pm

About stem cells, i think it's rather ridiculous to believe most stem cells come from embryos, they might have the most, but there are other ways to get them, i reckon they said that umbilical cord can contain some, a part of the digestive system is also known for having some stem cells and they can be acquired even from an adult body. I am kind of fed up with people trying to push back stem cell research because of the ignorance the media is scattering -.- .



twoshots
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Nov 2007
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,731
Location: Boötes void

20 Mar 2009, 8:55 pm

Chibi_Neko wrote:
monkees4va wrote:
What happens if he doesn't want the child and insists on abortion, but the mother does? same argument, but it does put things into perspective


It would not matter. The fetus is in her body, not his. She calls the shots.

And then gets to coerce him into caring for her decision.


_________________
* here for the nachos.


Sand
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Sep 2007
Age: 95
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,484
Location: Finland

20 Mar 2009, 10:31 pm

phil777 wrote:
About stem cells, i think it's rather ridiculous to believe most stem cells come from embryos, they might have the most, but there are other ways to get them, i reckon they said that umbilical cord can contain some, a part of the digestive system is also known for having some stem cells and they can be acquired even from an adult body. I am kind of fed up with people trying to push back stem cell research because of the ignorance the media is scattering -.- .


There are all sorts of stem cells and they each have different possibilities. The do not all have the same potentials and what those potentials are is still under intense research.



sojournertruth
Toucan
Toucan

User avatar

Joined: 1 Dec 2007
Age: 44
Gender: Female
Posts: 253

20 Mar 2009, 10:55 pm

No. The father has no legal say in the mother's decision. Personally, I wouldn't have sex with any man whom I didn't care about enough to discuss the matter with before I made my decision, but the ultimate choice would be mine because men cannot carry a zef to term. If, someday, technology is invented that enables us to take a zef from one person and implant it in another, male or female, we can require women to transfer the zef to the man's body rather than abort it, if he wants the child, and she'll be the non-custodial parent paying child support rather than the other way around. Until then, it's the woman's choice.

@ twoshots: life and biology aren't fair. It isn't fair that kangaroos give birth to an embryo the size of a walnut, and human women give birth to a fetus the size of a watermelon. Unfortunately, that's just the way it is right now and whining won't change it. Women get pregnant; men do not. Therefore, women make the decisions about a pregnancy.



twoshots
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Nov 2007
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,731
Location: Boötes void

20 Mar 2009, 11:00 pm

sojournertruth wrote:
@ twoshots: life and biology aren't fair. It isn't fair that kangaroos give birth to an embryo the size of a walnut, and human women give birth to a fetus the size of a watermelon. Unfortunately, that's just the way it is right now and whining won't change it. Women get pregnant; men do not. Therefore, women make the decisions about a pregnancy.

Well, no, it's not that simple. If the decision lies entirely with one party, why can the consequences be borne by another? Moral responsibilities are human constructs, and therefore by definition ought to be fair.


_________________
* here for the nachos.


twoshots
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Nov 2007
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,731
Location: Boötes void

20 Mar 2009, 11:03 pm

phil777 wrote:
About stem cells, i think it's rather ridiculous to believe most stem cells come from embryos, they might have the most, but there are other ways to get them, i reckon they said that umbilical cord can contain some, a part of the digestive system is also known for having some stem cells and they can be acquired even from an adult body. I am kind of fed up with people trying to push back stem cell research because of the ignorance the media is scattering -.- .

People do not generally oppose stem cell research in general. At least 'round here the controversy has been over embryonic stem cells pretty much exclusively.


_________________
* here for the nachos.


Zyborg
Velociraptor
Velociraptor

User avatar

Joined: 20 Dec 2008
Age: 33
Gender: Male
Posts: 459

21 Mar 2009, 12:10 am

philosopherBoi wrote:
Does the father of the unborn child have any rights to decide what happens to his child in regards to abortion?


If it is Aspergian, yes.



sojournertruth
Toucan
Toucan

User avatar

Joined: 1 Dec 2007
Age: 44
Gender: Female
Posts: 253

21 Mar 2009, 2:04 pm

twoshots wrote:
Well, no, it's not that simple. If the decision lies entirely with one party, why can the consequences be borne by another? Moral responsibilities are human constructs, and therefore by definition ought to be fair.


I'll let you think about that for a while before I start coming up with examples.



twoshots
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Nov 2007
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,731
Location: Boötes void

21 Mar 2009, 7:47 pm

sojournertruth wrote:
twoshots wrote:
Well, no, it's not that simple. If the decision lies entirely with one party, why can the consequences be borne by another? Moral responsibilities are human constructs, and therefore by definition ought to be fair.


I'll let you think about that for a while before I start coming up with examples.

"Examples" are neither an interesting nor cogent argument form.


_________________
* here for the nachos.


khelben1979
Toucan
Toucan

User avatar

Joined: 27 Aug 2008
Age: 42
Gender: Male
Posts: 294
Location: Sweden

23 Mar 2009, 10:20 am

Yes, but I strongly believe that it's the mother's decision. I don't feel that the man should be able to decide against the womans will in this matter.


_________________
/Bear Spirit, undiagnosed: AvPD and SPD


sojournertruth
Toucan
Toucan

User avatar

Joined: 1 Dec 2007
Age: 44
Gender: Female
Posts: 253

03 Apr 2009, 9:10 pm

twoshots wrote:
sojournertruth wrote:
twoshots wrote:
Well, no, it's not that simple. If the decision lies entirely with one party, why can the consequences be borne by another? Moral responsibilities are human constructs, and therefore by definition ought to be fair.


I'll let you think about that for a while before I start coming up with examples.

"Examples" are neither an interesting nor cogent argument form.


I disagree, but will answer in the general for you nonetheless. Nearly any decision one makes about oneself or one's own property will have at least some consequences that are borne by others. This is not necessarily 'fair,' but it is more fair than the alternative: that every action and behavior is voted on by everyone, and that personal autonomy and ownership of private property cease to exist.



SamAckary
Toucan
Toucan

User avatar

Joined: 28 Mar 2007
Age: 27
Gender: Male
Posts: 270
Location: Berkshire

04 Apr 2009, 4:55 am

Generally, in simple evolutionary terms the female is the most important part of the species, after all, they carry the young, they give up nutrients and sustinence, therefore it is their burden, and their choice, a man should have no right to force her to have it, nor to make her abort it, after all, it merely starts as a bundle of chemical based cells, should you really expect that to be intelligent? I mean, you could argue (if you believe in such a thing) that a soul resides and therefore by killing it you are destroying the soul or something similar, but then what sets us apart from our genetic cousins like apes? Nothing, thats what, so it should be a moral decision made on the woman's part, the man has no authority to say as he is merely a pair of testicles who happens to be able to walk and religious belief should have no right to interfere at all.


_________________
"When I Die, I Rot"-Bertrand Russell
"War does not prove who is right, only who is left"-Also Russell
"Religion is the Opium of the Masses" -Karl Marx, Father of Communism


iamnotaparakeet
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 31 Jul 2007
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 25,091
Location: 0.5 Galactic radius

04 Apr 2009, 5:03 am

SamAckary wrote:
Generally, in simple evolutionary terms the female is the most important part of the species, after all, they carry the young, they give up nutrients and sustinence, therefore it is their burden, and their choice, a man should have no right to force her to have it, nor to make her abort it, after all, it merely starts as a bundle of chemical based cells, should you really expect that to be intelligent? I mean, you could argue (if you believe in such a thing) that a soul resides and therefore by killing it you are destroying the soul or something similar, but then what sets us apart from our genetic cousins like apes? Nothing, thats what, so it should be a moral decision made on the woman's part, the man has no authority to say as he is merely a pair of testicles who happens to be able to walk and religious belief should have no right to interfere at all.


What is the probability that a human female will give birth to an orangutan or a velociraptor?