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Zyborg
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21 Mar 2009, 2:59 pm

I am so very tired of Self-hating Aspergians.

Aspergians who claim that we need neurotypicals to function. Aspergians who claim that Aspergians could not organise society. Aspergians who claim that we who are proud of being different are "elitist".

Could you not see what you are doing for yourselves and others? You are defining yourself as class B persons, not class A persons. That is sick and perverted way of thinking. You should be ashamed of yourselves.



jamesp420
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21 Mar 2009, 3:02 pm

Not meaning to offend, but some of your viewpoints do seem somewhat elitist, but if someone hates themselves, whether Aspie or not probably either has suffered some form of psycholocial abuse that has conditioned that self loathing into that person. That or they have some other psychological issues separate from Aspergers.


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gina-ghettoprincess
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21 Mar 2009, 3:03 pm

It's possible to be proud of who you are without being a supremacist, y'know. :roll:

You scare me a little bit, Zyborg.


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Zyborg
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21 Mar 2009, 3:07 pm

jamesp420 wrote:
Not meaning to offend, but some of your viewpoints do seem somewhat elitist, but if someone hates themselves, whether Aspie or not probably either has suffered some form of psycholocial abuse that has conditioned that self loathing into that person. That or they have some other psychological issues separate from Aspergers.


Rather elitist than defeatist.



jamesp420
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21 Mar 2009, 3:14 pm

Zyborg wrote:
jamesp420 wrote:
Not meaning to offend, but some of your viewpoints do seem somewhat elitist, but if someone hates themselves, whether Aspie or not probably either has suffered some form of psycholocial abuse that has conditioned that self loathing into that person. That or they have some other psychological issues separate from Aspergers.


Rather elitist than defeatist.


True, but better to be neither. Simply be proud of who you are as a person, neurobiological differences aside.


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Zyborg
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21 Mar 2009, 3:17 pm

jamesp420 wrote:
Zyborg wrote:
jamesp420 wrote:
Not meaning to offend, but some of your viewpoints do seem somewhat elitist, but if someone hates themselves, whether Aspie or not probably either has suffered some form of psycholocial abuse that has conditioned that self loathing into that person. That or they have some other psychological issues separate from Aspergers.


Rather elitist than defeatist.


True, but better to be neither. Simply be proud of who you are as a person, neurobiological differences aside.


That is worthless. It would be lie if I do not accomplish anything. I do accomplish things, but I am not proud of myself as person. In fact, I am completely uninterested in myself.



jamesp420
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21 Mar 2009, 3:20 pm

Zyborg wrote:
jamesp420 wrote:
Zyborg wrote:
jamesp420 wrote:
Not meaning to offend, but some of your viewpoints do seem somewhat elitist, but if someone hates themselves, whether Aspie or not probably either has suffered some form of psycholocial abuse that has conditioned that self loathing into that person. That or they have some other psychological issues separate from Aspergers.


Rather elitist than defeatist.


True, but better to be neither. Simply be proud of who you are as a person, neurobiological differences aside.


That is worthless. It would be lie if I do not accomplish anything. I do accomplish things, but I am not proud of myself as person. In fact, I am completely uninterested in myself.


I'm not entirely sure I understand. Do you suffer from low self-esteem, or simply just don't give a s**t?


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gina-ghettoprincess
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21 Mar 2009, 3:23 pm

Secondly, will you quit calling us "Aspergians"? It sounds very elitist.


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Zyborg
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21 Mar 2009, 3:25 pm

jamesp420 wrote:
Zyborg wrote:
jamesp420 wrote:
Zyborg wrote:
jamesp420 wrote:
Not meaning to offend, but some of your viewpoints do seem somewhat elitist, but if someone hates themselves, whether Aspie or not probably either has suffered some form of psycholocial abuse that has conditioned that self loathing into that person. That or they have some other psychological issues separate from Aspergers.


Rather elitist than defeatist.


True, but better to be neither. Simply be proud of who you are as a person, neurobiological differences aside.


That is worthless. It would be lie if I do not accomplish anything. I do accomplish things, but I am not proud of myself as person. In fact, I am completely uninterested in myself.


I'm not entirely sure I understand. Do you suffer from low self-esteem, or simply just don't give a sh**?


I do not simply care. I have very high self-confidence in terms of ideology and politics and leadership. But I have no personal life and do not aspire to have personal life at all. My goal is to serve cause of great Aspergian Nation.



Zyborg
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21 Mar 2009, 3:25 pm

gina-ghettoprincess wrote:
Secondly, will you quit calling us "Aspergians"? It sounds very elitist.


No, I will not.



jamesp420
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21 Mar 2009, 3:29 pm

Zyborg wrote:
jamesp420 wrote:
Zyborg wrote:
jamesp420 wrote:
Zyborg wrote:
jamesp420 wrote:
Not meaning to offend, but some of your viewpoints do seem somewhat elitist, but if someone hates themselves, whether Aspie or not probably either has suffered some form of psycholocial abuse that has conditioned that self loathing into that person. That or they have some other psychological issues separate from Aspergers.


Rather elitist than defeatist.


True, but better to be neither. Simply be proud of who you are as a person, neurobiological differences aside.


That is worthless. It would be lie if I do not accomplish anything. I do accomplish things, but I am not proud of myself as person. In fact, I am completely uninterested in myself.


I'm not entirely sure I understand. Do you suffer from low self-esteem, or simply just don't give a sh**?


I do not simply care. I have very high self-confidence in terms of ideology and politics and leadership. But I have no personal life and do not aspire to have personal life at all. My goal is to serve cause of great Aspergian Nation.


Well, good luck fulfilling this goal I guess, but just know that it may be slightly difficult doing it by yourself, as I would assume not many people would help you.

Btw, why call us Aspergians? What is the meaning behind this term, in your mind?


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21 Mar 2009, 3:32 pm

Zyborg wrote:
I am so very tired of Self-hating Aspergians.

Aspergians who claim that we need neurotypicals to function. Aspergians who claim that Aspergians could not organise society. Aspergians who claim that we who are proud of being different are "elitist".

Could you not see what you are doing for yourselves and others? You are defining yourself as class B persons, not class A persons. That is sick and perverted way of thinking. You should be ashamed of yourselves.
Wait a moment... that's not self-hatred at all.

Some of us do need people to do stuff for us. Doesn't have to be an NT; can be another autistic who can do those things. It's not self-hatred if you admit that.

I don't know if we can organize a society. I do know NTs are very good at it, because it's one of their strengths--they excel at connecting with each other. But whether we can or not, I don't know why we'd want to pull off on our own to try to build our own society, though; you lose a lot when you reduce diversity. It takes all types, including NTs, if you're going to do things well.

I can understand being proud of your differences, but that pride should not extend to claiming superiority. If you do that you're probably either dabbling in narcissism or reacting too strongly to being exposed to the idea that you are inferior.

Stop it with the classes of people. There are no intrinsic classes of people. We're not class A or class B or class XYZ.

Oh, and by the way, if you are picking on people who really do hate themselves, rather than just not saying they're superior, be aware that these people have often been repeatedly and deeply hurt--often literally brainwashed--into believing that. Your getting annoyed at their self-hatred is not going to help them. They are just going to feel even worse about it, and probably think something along the lines of, "Well, it's nice he thinks you can be proud of it, but I have problem X and that is unacceptable; therefore my autism is still unacceptable."

Somewhere along the line you're going to have to admit that you're human, and so are NTs, and that you've got a heck of a lot more in common with them than you have that's different from them. Trying to declare yourself superior won't solve anything, and it sure as heck won't bolster a non-existent or negative self-image.


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olle
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21 Mar 2009, 3:38 pm

gina-ghettoprincess wrote:
It's possible to be proud of who you are without being a supremacist, y'know. :roll:

That is so very true.

I don't have a problem with some aspies generally not liking NTs or generally not enjoying the company of neurotypicals. It is a personal preference.

What troubles me is the viewpoint that all NTs are equal, or that they're all evil, manipulative, talking behind your back, emotional, irrational, or overly emotional. There are NTs who are not like that at all. Remember, the vast majority of people are not on the spectrum. And there is great diversity among NTs, just like among aspies.

What also troubles me is the idea that the rest of us should share your dislike for NTs. If you want to hate NTs, feel free to do so, but please don't expect me to share your hatred. Please keep it to yourself. Unless you're calling for action, for creation of Aspergia Nation. Or something.

But the fact that many of us (I'm no exception myself) have had bad experiences with NTs doesn't mean we should generalize, or hide from the rest of society and dream of some separate autistic society or nation. :roll:

I'm a student at a technical university. Like most places, it's populated mostly by nonautistics.

Yet, people here are generally nice to me, and to others. I've heard at least one NT say that the people here are accepting and including, and I totally agree with him. People here are generally smart, nice, and technical. Sometimes even geeky and quite odd. All of those properties have been said by some WP members to not be present in NTs.

I'm obviously not saying that all aspies should go to a techincal university. I'm saying that there is great diversity among NTs, and that there probably are NTs who are compatible with you.



Zyborg
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21 Mar 2009, 3:46 pm

Callista wrote:
Zyborg wrote:
I am so very tired of Self-hating Aspergians.

Aspergians who claim that we need neurotypicals to function. Aspergians who claim that Aspergians could not organise society. Aspergians who claim that we who are proud of being different are "elitist".

Could you not see what you are doing for yourselves and others? You are defining yourself as class B persons, not class A persons. That is sick and perverted way of thinking. You should be ashamed of yourselves.
Wait a moment... that's not self-hatred at all.

Some of us do need people to do stuff for us. Doesn't have to be an NT; can be another autistic who can do those things. It's not self-hatred if you admit that.

I don't know if we can organize a society. I do know NTs are very good at it, because it's one of their strengths--they excel at connecting with each other. But whether we can or not, I don't know why we'd want to pull off on our own to try to build our own society, though; you lose a lot when you reduce diversity. It takes all types, including NTs, if you're going to do things well.

I can understand being proud of your differences, but that pride should not extend to claiming superiority. If you do that you're probably either dabbling in narcissism or reacting too strongly to being exposed to the idea that you are inferior.

Stop it with the classes of people. There are no intrinsic classes of people. We're not class A or class B or class XYZ.

Oh, and by the way, if you are picking on people who really do hate themselves, rather than just not saying they're superior, be aware that these people have often been repeatedly and deeply hurt--often literally brainwashed--into believing that. Your getting annoyed at their self-hatred is not going to help them. They are just going to feel even worse about it, and probably think something along the lines of, "Well, it's nice he thinks you can be proud of it, but I have problem X and that is unacceptable; therefore my autism is still unacceptable."

Somewhere along the line you're going to have to admit that you're human, and so are NTs, and that you've got a heck of a lot more in common with them than you have that's different from them. Trying to declare yourself superior won't solve anything, and it sure as heck won't bolster a non-existent or negative self-image.


Human civilisation is about constant struggle between ethnic groups and social classes. Stop pretending it is'nt so. It is social-darwinist in essence.

Modern society is not about making connections. You are talking about primitive hunter-gatherer civilisation.

Our society today is de-facto under control of those who understand technology. We do not need humans who connect with other humans. We need humans who connect with machines. That is why we Aspergians, unless we are exterminated in Holocaust, will inherit Earth. Because we are superior in administration of technology.

I encourage all Aspergians who have had their self-confidence crushed by neurotypical civilisation to fight back. To unite and defend themselves against bullies and extremist groups like Autism Speaks.



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21 Mar 2009, 3:53 pm

jamesp420 wrote:
...Simply be proud of who you are as a person...
Zyborg wrote:
...I am not proud of myself as person...
I've been wondering... Is this just about semantics, or do I have an issue?
I've always felt there was something icky about the idea of "pride."
Acceptance and respect are ok, but I have trouble saying "I'm proud of you."
Does anyone feel the same way? Any thoughts?



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21 Mar 2009, 3:56 pm

Tahitiii wrote:
jamesp420 wrote:
...Simply be proud of who you are as a person...
Zyborg wrote:
...I am not proud of myself as person...
I've been wondering... Is this just about semantics, or do I have an issue?
I've always felt there was something icky about the idea of "pride."
Acceptance and respect are ok, but I have trouble saying "I'm proud of you."
Does anyone feel the same way? Any thoughts?

I can accept praise, give praise when needed. Sometimes I think people are patronizing me when they're not though.
I don't know if you only wanted answers on people who couldn't, but yeah. If you did, disregard this one :P.
EMZ=]