I am an "indigo child" (Try and prove me wrong!)

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CanyonWind
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29 Mar 2009, 12:41 pm

Don't get me wrong, I don't see no point in believing this indigo children stuff.

Especially when they start talking about "Native American beliefs," unless they're Native American themselves or they spent quite a bit of time on a reservation hanging out with the elders.

Kinda like Madonna claiming to understand the esoteric traditions of Judaism.

Fnord wrote:
Everyone supported the emperor's delusion simply because they did not wish to look like a fool.


On this thread, right here, right now, what cultural bias is everybody supporting, insisting anybody thinking outside that cultural bias is a fool?


Fnord wrote:
The moral of the story is that one should not believe everything they are told, especially if the evidence does not support the claims.


No, the moral of the story is recognizing that the traditions of one culture are not necessarily the sole and absolute definition of universal truth, which I personally believe is beyond human comprehension.


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McTell
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29 Mar 2009, 12:45 pm

Hala wrote:
(I really don't feel like waiting for my slow internet to stream just under 63 minutes of video and I gather from others' responses that the videos are not entirely relevant either, so I hope you can understand why I don't feel like watching them.)


The videos are about synesthesia. They're interesting, but not relevant to this debate. Also, the first one is basically identical to the second, but more concise.



ThisisjusthowItalk
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29 Mar 2009, 12:56 pm

dusekbr wrote:
Hello everyone,

If you had an understanding of what it means to be an "indigo child" you would know that I do not mean to be rude, but rather efficient with my time.
Spend some time on PubMed and similar databases researching the effects of emotional reactions on attention, memory and other components of information processing. You would be surprised. More delicate speech is ultimately more concise because it reduces noise generated by the hearer.

Quote:
If you don't believe in the Theory of Evolution then you might as well stop reading as my statements will only upset your emotions and being you do not understand your emotions your mind will subconsciously use the defense mechanism of denial.
Strangely, I have gotten Born-Again Christians to understand Asperger Syndrome relatively well simply by putting it in terms that they are more prepared to accept. My method of communication is more efficient because I do adjust for sources of noise at the other end.



dusekbr
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29 Mar 2009, 4:40 pm

Alright, we a few of you are starting to get the ball rolling... Do you not understand I am pitching a new idea? If the idea had already been proven I would be able to just link you to an article, but I'm challenging you to think for yourself. I'm not challenging to to form an uneducated opinion based off of no to little research like some of you seem to be doing. I guess I kinda figured anyone with AS would be interesting in what really causes it and by what really causes it I of course mean what is the science behind it all. You can study human behavior, link it to cognitive development, and finally connect it with biology. Once the biology is understood you will be able to get a DNA test and receive an accurate diagnosis, what a relief.

McTell wrote:
I have watched these two videos. They are about synesthesia and do not once mention indigo children. No one disputes the existence of synesthesia. I must say that the two videos together ran for 62 minutes and 42 seconds. I don't think it is fair to try to exclude those who don't watch them from debate, especially considering the videos were of little relevance to the science of 'indigo' children. Indeed, were I of a suspicious nature, I would assume you posted those videos in an attempt to give you an excuse to ignore some who are sceptical of your claim. But I'm totally not a suspicious person.

Now, would
McTell wrote:

I have watched these two videos. They are about synesthesia and do not once mention indigo children. No one disputes the existence of synesthesia. I must say that the two videos together ran for 62 minutes and 42 seconds. I don't think it is fair to try to exclude those who don't watch them from debate, especially considering the videos were of little relevance to the science of 'indigo' children. Indeed, were I of a suspicious nature, I would assume you posted those videos in an attempt to give you an excuse to ignore some who are sceptical of your claim. But I'm totally not a suspicious person.

Now, would you be willing to post something that supports 'indigoness' with science please?
you be willing to post something that supports 'indigoness' with science please?


What does synesthesia have to do with indigo children? The question would have been better worded, what does synesthesia have to do with being on the spectrum? The answer is, everything.

The path to information begins with your senses and it ultimately dictates how we perceive the world, so I'm baffled as to why this comes off to you as non-significant with respect to ADD/ADHD and AS being linked with self-transcendence accord to Maslow aka "self-indogism" according to me.

Because people with synethesia have differently wired brains, the can process certain tasks better depending on how the senses are crossed. This also causes a great deal of suffering for some people if their not able to understand what in their environment is causing the stress. For whatever reason it may be, I am more aware of myself which allows me to also be more aware of my environmental stressors.

Here are some more links worth viewing..

http://unionofthesenses.tribe.net/threa ... 7bc1eea23a

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTWmTJAL ... re=related

http://media.mindinstitute.org/video/su ... uminst.mov

http://media.mindinstitute.org/video/su ... nst_hi.m4v

http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p ... 6CDD7586AB

Fnord wrote:
Anything associated with New Age is automatically suspect. The term "Indigo Child" is used to describe autistic children by mothers who refuse to accept the cold, had truth that their children are no perfect. So instead of learning how to deal with their child's condition, they delude themselves into believing that their children are somehow "special."

Indigo children have no special powers, simply because there are no special powers to have. There is no such thing as "magic" and "psychic" abilities do not exist, either.

Anyone who claims otherwise is either a deluded fool, or a deliberate liar. If it were otherwise, there would be an abundance of valid scientific evidence. Instead, all that is available involves testimonials from uneducated, ignorant sources; and so-called "documentaries" from people who have a hidden agenda or a promotional concept to make money for themselves.

It's all a scam.


It's all up to interpretation. My mother has never heard of "indigo" so your interpretation certainly doesn't apply to me.

The "magic" and "psychic" abilities in comparative have real counter parts that science is proving. There is a 6th sense in the penal gland of the brain which is very mysterious. This 6th sense is often referred to as the 3rd eye.

What hidden agendas? This videos are all from people who deeply want to help people with autism and mankind through understanding.

LifeOfTheSpectrum wrote:
You could just be a throwback of evolution like the other "Indigo Children."


I find it hard to get into your "theory of mind" as well. If "new" children are developing cognitively faster and score higher on virtually every metric, I don't understand how that could be confused for a throwback.

Hala wrote:
I can in fact recall statements in which that opinion was expressed. For instance: "Humans evolve and I'm one of the latest in evolution." - what part of that sentence portrays any view that all humans are equal or that you do not believe you are of more value than non-"indigo children"?

Your logic is flawed. How did you derive that feeling from that sentence is beyond me. It is also beyond yourself as it the truth resides hidden in your subconscious. If you did some research you would conclude that I am indeed the latest so that is a perfectly factual statement.

Yes, I do lack an ability to understand other people's theory of mind but that is due to my autism and I personally don't think there's any way to fully change that. We Aspie's can adapt and learn to cope with our differences, sure, but underneath we'll always be autistic, there's no cure or miraculous understanding.

Some aspie's have extraordinary ability to understand others "theory of mind" because they know themselves better. Who needs a cure? There is nothing wrong with any of us.

The "logic" will, of course, seem infallible to you, as it is your logic. That doesn't mean everyone will have to agree with it and it also doesn't mean that everyone else is wrong. If you can't see our points of view then you obviously haven't reached understanding of "theory of mind", despite what you claim.

Rhetorical logic

Just because someone is dyslexic it doesn't mean they can't comprehend what they read, it just means they have difficulty reading it. My cousin is autistic and dyslexic and he has done incredibly well in school, college and university. He still has difficulty reading and writing individual words but he can understand what the context perfectly fine. I also have a friend who is dyslexic and she loves reading. She can comprehend everything she reads, obviously, otherwise why would she enjoy reading it? Dyslexia is not to do with the individual's ability to comprehend, it is their ability to read and write, you should really get your facts straight before you start claiming such things, as you could really offend some people here.

You don't understand what dyslexicia is. It does mean one can't comprehend what they read. Your family/friends sound misdiagnosed to me or they have been fortune to overcome the biological difference and learned ways around it.

Correct me if I'm wrong (which I'm sure you will do) but I wasn't under the impression that synaesthesia had anything to do with logic or control of emotions. I am curious to hear how it does affect these things. I'm sure you do have synaesthesia, I'm not claiming in any way that you don't have it. I'm also not claiming that I know more about these subjects than you do, as it is obvious that I don't. Please bear in mind, though, that I am only 16 and am merely expressing my opinions, which, considering the title of this topic, I assumed you were asking for.

How man senses his world ultimately determines everything about how he perceives it.

(I really don't feel like waiting for my slow internet to stream just under 63 minutes of video and I gather from others' responses that the videos are not entirely relevant either, so I hope you can understand why I don't feel like watching them.)

[b] Fine with me, you just admitted you aren't willing to do research so I'll never reply to any of your uneducated opinions again.



McTell wrote:
Hala wrote:
(I really don't feel like waiting for my slow internet to stream just under 63 minutes of video and I gather from others' responses that the videos are not entirely relevant either, so I hope you can understand why I don't feel like watching them.)


The videos are about synesthesia. They're interesting, but not relevant to this debate. Also, the first one is basically identical to the second, but more concise.


I hope you reconsider your view.



dusekbr
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29 Mar 2009, 4:44 pm

ThisisjusthowItalk wrote:
dusekbr wrote:
Hello everyone,

If you had an understanding of what it means to be an "indigo child" you would know that I do not mean to be rude, but rather efficient with my time.
Spend some time on PubMed and similar databases researching the effects of emotional reactions on attention, memory and other components of information processing. You would be surprised. More delicate speech is ultimately more concise because it reduces noise generated by the hearer.

Quote:
If you don't believe in the Theory of Evolution then you might as well stop reading as my statements will only upset your emotions and being you do not understand your emotions your mind will subconsciously use the defense mechanism of denial.
Strangely, I have gotten Born-Again Christians to understand Asperger Syndrome relatively well simply by putting it in terms that they are more prepared to accept. My method of communication is more efficient because I do adjust for sources of noise at the other end.


Interesting..

Everyone adjusts communication depending on their audience. You have ways that they may seem to understand, but they reall don't. You can't twist Evolution in to Creationism and still truly understand Evolution. You can interrupt Creationism any way you feel, but Creationism is a product of learning behavior where Evolution has been derived from nature. If god gave us nature I would assume people would find more trust in it, but it seems they have been brain washed by fellow man.



McTell
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29 Mar 2009, 5:03 pm

dusekbr wrote:
What does synesthesia have to do with indigo children? The question would have been better worded, what does synesthesia have to do with being on the spectrum? The answer is, everything.


No, if I worded the question as "What does synesthesia have to do with being on the spectrum" then I would be asking another question entirely. Now, by telling me the answer is everything, you have told me nothing. You are very vague, and I have trouble understanding such cloudy answers. Please explain, and by all means assume I am stupid when making this explanation, why you are using videos about synesthesia as proof of 'Indigoism'?

I suspect you are suggesting that ASDs and 'Indigoism' are one and the same. Am I correct in this interpretation?

EDIT: Totally didn't see this:

Quote:
There is a 6th sense in the penal gland of the brain which is very mysterious. This 6th sense is often referred to as the 3rd eye.


What you have said here is untrue. This mistake comes from the lateness of the discovery for this gland's purpose, along with its central position in the brain (For this made it seen significant). Descartes believed it to be the link between the mind and the body. All untrue though. It is where melatonin is secreted from. That is all.



Last edited by McTell on 29 Mar 2009, 6:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Tahitiii
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29 Mar 2009, 6:24 pm

makuranososhi wrote:
I'm open to possibility... When there are flat declarations of fact, then it invokes imagery of snake oil salesmen and patent medicine 'doctors' of the western US in the 19th century. Does that make sense...?
Yes. That makes sense within the context of the "modern" view. In the box. That box also says that we must to condemn. I'd rather say "screw the box" than belittle someone who's making an imperfect effort to think again an expressing it imperfectly. Does that make sense?

DeepBlueLake wrote:
Anyone want to explain the similarities between this:
1. They come into the world with a feeling of royalty (and often act like it)...
and this:
Characteristics of people with antisocial personality disorder may include:
Persistent lying or stealing... Apparent lack of remorse or empathy... ?
I would add to the second list "partially or throroughly brainwashed..."

I think I see a similarity. One is a free-range Aspie who was somehow sheltered and can clean up his act later, the other is a person who's mind was broken before it had a chance to develop. I have no idea how to prove that.

dusekbr wrote:
Since you where rude to me I will be rude too, as I believe in the "golden rule."
That is a symptom of being partially broken. The "golden rule" is not about retaliating for bad behavior (real or perceived) but an optimistic approach that can rise above the bad behavior of others. Often, it turns out that one's first impression of a bad behavior was incorrect or incomplete, and that such retaliation would have been a mistake. If you retaliate, it will only escalate and create the illusion that you were right.

The whole subject of indigo and crystal children is a fragile little thing, and there's no room for competition or pride or choosing sides or defensiveness... It has little bits and pieces of disconnected truths that will be too easily lost in the mud. "When elephants fight, the grass gets trampled." (Ancient African proverb?)

Perhaps using the word "evolution" is a mistake. Can we find another conceptual model? Some creatures develop or even change in adulthood depending on environmental triggers. Some can even switch genders as needed. The mind and its possible variations is more complex than gender and less understood, and the possibilities are endless.

Or perhaps we can skip over and temporarily accept the fairy tale, just to get to the next page. We have a recent thread about "NT math" or something like that. Those who survive the nonsense and bad teaching methods of elementary math find a world of really good stuff on the other side. Those who get that far, if you're feeling charitable, could come back and show us a better door to that world.

Magicfly wrote:
And low and behold, I was diagnosed AS several years later, and I'm left feeling a bit of anger at this woman for saying such contrary rubbish while at the same time supposedly being able to lecture on autism, and for the mess she left me to clean up convincing my mother that this was more like a religious belief than sound scientific principle.
Perhaps if she had been honest with my mother I could have know about AS sooner and been spared the extra 5 years of always trying to work out what's so wrong with me to others.
I’m just wondering. This is not a smart-azz rhetorical question. Imagine a choice between:
(1) a perfect mother with a perfect approach to an Aspie toddler, whatever that may be;
(2) a mother who is prone to superstition, and accepts the popular, fascist notion that an Aspie is defective, and that he must be beaten into submission or be condemned to a life that’s not worth living; and
(3) a mother who is prone to superstition, and accepts some flaky spiritual notion that her child is just wonderful the way he is.
Ok, now, scratch the first one, and chose between the others.

Woodpeace wrote:
http://www.allaboutindigos.com (Barack Obama and Rafael Correa are Indigos.)
That works for me. I should have been a catalyist, with bits of humanist and conceptualist (no artist). Too bad I’m such a basket case. It would have been nice.

In “The Emperor’s New Clothes,” it was the theory accepted by the majority that was incorrect. We have a whole bunch of crazy beliefs today that desperately need to be busted wide open. Applying this story to someone who is open to Indigo thinking is backward. Like the “golden rule,” above, it’s easy to miss the point.



Hala
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29 Mar 2009, 6:33 pm

I know it's highly probable that you will either insult me further or simply ignore my statement, but I just wanted to add that I did state that I was aware of my intelligence and education being inferior to yours.
I feel that you constantly rubbing this in my face is, frankly, hurtful. I didn't mean any offence by my comments and I'm sorry if it came across that way but from my humble perspective, you seem to be intent on making me feel inadequate and idiotic, so that is why I retaliated.
I can see that I'm being pathetic for getting so easily offended so there's no need to point that out, thank you. I will stop bothering you with my lesser opinions now.



makuranososhi
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29 Mar 2009, 6:38 pm

Quote:
Yes. That makes sense within the context of the "modern" view. In the box. That box also says that we must to condemn. I'd rather say "screw the box" than belittle someone who's making an imperfect effort to think again an expressing it imperfectly. Does that make sense?


I'm afraid that I am unsure where you feel I have belittled anyone; if you would oblige me by point that out, I would greatly appreciate it. Second, that same skepticism applies to all things including science - to presume that man is able to observe all things is somewhat foolish in my opinion, that we have what amounts to our best glimpse into existence. But that there are observable tendencies gives a framework to develop a sense of pattern and context. As I said, I'm open to possibility - but the blanket assertions of being more developed and having specific abilities without any proof or explanation do not set well with me, and thus I ask questions.


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ThisisjusthowItalk
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29 Mar 2009, 7:16 pm

dusekbr wrote:
Interesting..

Everyone adjusts communication depending on their audience.
Yes. This way, we can communicate with each other.

Quote:
You have ways that they may seem to understand,
Yes, such as by being polite to them and not tying their religious beliefs to their intelligence. I find that religious people have no difficulty comprehending ideas that conflict directly with their religious beliefs. It is actually perfectly normal for human beings to be able to do this sort of thing. To tell you the truth, I have discovered that most Christians these days seem to believe in evolution and Old Testament Christianity at the same time. This sounds like it would be confusing, but most seem to get on just fine.



dusekbr
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29 Mar 2009, 7:34 pm

McTell wrote:
dusekbr wrote:
What does synesthesia have to do with indigo children? The question would have been better worded, what does synesthesia have to do with being on the spectrum? The answer is, everything.


No, if I worded the question as "What does synesthesia have to do with being on the spectrum" then I would be asking another question entirely. Now, by telling me the answer is everything, you have told me nothing. You are very vague, and I have trouble understanding such cloudy answers. Please explain, and by all means assume I am stupid when making this explanation, why you are using videos about synesthesia as proof of 'Indigoism'?

I suspect you are suggesting that ASDs and 'Indigoism' are one and the same. Am I correct in this interpretation?

EDIT: Totally didn't see this:

Quote:
There is a 6th sense in the penal gland of the brain which is very mysterious. This 6th sense is often referred to as the 3rd eye.


Did you not view any of the links I posted? If you don't want to take my word for it, maybe you will take the "experts" opinions. They believe in correlation between "self-indigoization" (do you know what self-actualization really is?.) Reread some of my old posts.

I am far from same saying the are one in the same. They however seem to be correlated or linked.
I am also saying that a better understanding of "indigo" children will inheritibily benefit understand of all of man kind and especially those of us gifted on the spectrum (those of gifted with modern evolutionary traits.)

With synesthesia you can perceive sensory information from the penal gland. I was born with this abnormalities, but everyone in the world has access to this synesthesia through DMT: the spirit molecule. DMT came from the cosmos and is in everything that makes up our world. It is what makes us dream/understand ourselves.

http://www.holisticonline.com/Remedies/ ... d-5HTP.htm

Key point: The body makes melatonin from 5htp..

The body can get 5htp naturally by eating foods that contain tryptophans that get converted into 5htp.

I suggest anyone who is currently taking a SSRI drug to immediately stop and try the natural approach.

You can learn about it here. http://www.completehealthdallas.com/Ant ... allas.html

Now what is the difference between the Prescription drug versus the Natural alternative? Isn't the prescription drug more regulated? Yes, it does, but it also most like synthesized to imitate the natural molecular structure. The synthetics can get to be 99.999% the same as the natural, but not 100%. I good example of this the most active molecule in Cannabis (marijuana,) THC. The natural drug is the most illegal plant in the world despite being the safest and most beneficial. You can legally get a prescriptoin for Marinol which is a synthesized THC that is not 100% the same as its natural counter part. For this reason it is no wonder that almost no reports benefit from using marinol and those reporting benefit are near the same rate as the placebo control That 0.0001 or whatever percentage is what I believe is causing problems with my symptoms related to being on the spectrum and I know this because I am more developed on Maslow's hierarchy of needs. Not only do I think it's effecting my symptoms, but everyone else's on the spectrum and all the associated "disorders."

Why the increasing rate of autistic reporting symptoms and general disease and "disorders" in Western Society?

Improper diet. We aren't eating the right food to keep our 5htp,melatonin, and serotonin balances in the most functional way.

Our ancestors didn't have access to the wide variety of foods who have today. They ate whatever food they had accessed to and their bodies "evolved" to be more tolerable to some and less tolerable to others. Everything they ate was 100% organic and free of other chemicals and genetically modified organisms. Some people have reported REVERSING cancer when the patient was switched to a proper diet.

What diet should you eat? Because your family tree (roots) are greatly complex a good place to start is by your diet and I recommend the "blood type diet." From there you will able to avoid major troublesome foods that will improve your physical and mental health.

It's hard to eat right because it's so damn expensive which is just another injustice our "government" has been doing us.


Hala wrote:
I know it's highly probable that you will either insult me further or simply ignore my statement, but I just wanted to add that I did state that I was aware of my intelligence and education being inferior to yours.
I feel that you constantly rubbing this in my face is, frankly, hurtful. I didn't mean any offence by my comments and I'm sorry if it came across that way but from my humble perspective, you seem to be intent on making me feel inadequate and idiotic, so that is why I retaliated.
I can see that I'm being pathetic for getting so easily offended so there's no need to point that out, thank you. I will stop bothering you with my lesser opinions now.


Why would your intelligence be inferior to my own? The question is what is a good intelligence and what is a bad intelligence, but what is good or bad? Your intelligence is only different than mine.



dusekbr
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29 Mar 2009, 7:37 pm

ThisisjusthowItalk wrote:
I have discovered that most Christians these days seem to believe in evolution and Old Testament Christianity at the same time. This sounds like it would be confusing, but most seem to get on just fine.


I agree that they acknowledge that Evolution is real and that it can coexists with Religious beliefs and I personally do the same. The bible or other books of significance is all literal and can be interrupted in infinite ways.

The problem is even though the acknowledge evolution is real, they still throw up defense mechanisms when it comes to making inferences from the theory of evolution.



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29 Mar 2009, 7:44 pm

dusekbr wrote:
Everyone adjusts communication depending on their audience. You have ways that they may seem to understand, but they reall don't. You can't twist Evolution in to Creationism and still truly understand Evolution. You can interrupt Creationism any way you feel, but Creationism is a product of learning behavior where Evolution has been derived from nature. If god gave us nature I would assume people would find more trust in it, but it seems they have been brain washed by fellow man.


I do not think we should trust nature to much - The people in Pompeii and Herculaneum did so, with a bad results. More recently the Dutch did so 1953 - roughly 1'800 paid with their lives. The list shear endless. Not to talk about smallpox, TBC, HIV and other nice "present" of "mother nature".

---

It is better to regard "mother nature" more as a close relative to Medusa:

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29 Mar 2009, 7:53 pm

I did view look at the links you posted actually, which - considering the length of the videos - is something you should not take for granted. I must say that I saw no scientific proof of 'indigoism' in them.

This

Quote:
http://www.holisticonline.com/Remedies/Sleep/sleep_ins_melatonin-and-5HTP.htm


Explains what Melatonin does, but offers no proof of its being a "third eye."

But, I do not care because this thread is not about synesthesia, it is about 'indigo-children.'

Now, on the subject of self-indigoism and self-actualisation: I read about them in your link. They were written about with some fancy language. What does it actually mean?

I have asked you for your proof. I shall ask again: please, give me some scientific proof of 'indigoism.' Explain your fancy terms; assume I am foolish and so please tailor your response in accordance with this assumption. I am not interested in hearing about synesthesia, at least not here. I want to hear of the science you say is behind 'Indigoism.'



dusekbr
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29 Mar 2009, 8:02 pm

McTell wrote:
Now, on the subject of self-indigoism and self-actualisation: I read about them in your link. They were written about with some fancy language. What does it actually mean?

I have asked you for your proof. I shall ask again: please, give me some scientific proof of 'indigoism.' Explain your fancy terms; assume I am foolish and so please tailor your response in accordance with this assumption. I am not interested in hearing about synesthesia, at least not here. I want to hear of the science you say is behind 'Indigoism.'


Synesthesia strongly influences indogism.. why are you trying to narrow the debate? I think it's fair for me to call you narrow minded after that statement.

Have you ever taken a psychology class?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow%27s ... y_of_needs