I need to know why society think its ok to lie?

Page 1 of 10 [ 138 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 10  Next

KenM
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Oct 2005
Age: 51
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,597
Location: Mass. USA

30 Mar 2009, 4:27 pm

I need to know this before I leave WP. I was raised to be honest, always. No matter what. When I am lied to I feel the person has no respect for me and can't be trusted at all.

So why is it ok for women to:

1. Say "I just want to be friends" when they want to nothing to do with you and think you are letting you down easy. To me if they want to be friends it means they want to keeep talking with you, ect.. Many times a women I been interested in say they just want to be friends, but freak out when I tryed to keep talking to them. If they wanted nothing to do with me, say so.

2. "I don't want a relationship right now because i still have some issues." Then a week later they are introducing me to the new boyfriend. All of a sudden her "issues" go away when she meets someone she is interested in. Totally misleading you.

But we allow this happen. Why can't people be straightfooreward with each other? Why do most people feel the need to stroke there own egos by not telling people how they really feel?

Wome- I'm sorry, demons from hell have this talent naturally.



arielhawksquill
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 28 Jun 2008
Age: 43
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,856
Location: Midwest

30 Mar 2009, 4:45 pm

Being kind trumps being truthful. Society considers it OK to lie if the truth would be considered cruel--this is called a "little white lie", and is not considered egregious dishonesty.

The girls who turned you down using little white lies thought they were being kind to you (girls especially are taught to always "be nice" more than "be honest" .) The way they rejected you was an attempt to allow you to save face. Additionally, women may fear a violent reaction from men they reject cruelly, so they were hoping to protect themselves from harm by "letting you down easy".

I have seen you harp on this issue before, and have seen other people here explain it to you, so I don't think you really want to understand, but that's OK--I thought I'd give it a shot.



KenM
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Oct 2005
Age: 51
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,597
Location: Mass. USA

30 Mar 2009, 4:50 pm

I understand. I don't think its right at all. I don't like it at all. Society is messed up this way. To me being honest with someone shows more respect then misleading them.

I'm always honest and I can sleep at night. How do these demons from hell live with themselves?



arielhawksquill
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 28 Jun 2008
Age: 43
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,856
Location: Midwest

30 Mar 2009, 4:54 pm

I doubt they're thinking about it--they may not even remember doing it. Turning somebody down for a date is something attractive women have to do all the time.

I think calling them demons is a bit hyperbolic. Dishonesty seems to be a uniquely human trait.



Last edited by arielhawksquill on 30 Mar 2009, 4:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

KenM
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Oct 2005
Age: 51
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,597
Location: Mass. USA

30 Mar 2009, 4:58 pm

arielhawksquill wrote:
I think calling them demons is a bit hyperbolic.



If you have been through what i have been through, you'd call them demons. I'm not just talking about how I feel they are dishonest.



Cyberman
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 24 Apr 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,262
Location: hibernating

30 Mar 2009, 5:14 pm

Honesty and other virtues are not highly valued in our culture. Craftiness and opportunism are regarded as being more important. Not saying it's right, just how it is.



KenM
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Oct 2005
Age: 51
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,597
Location: Mass. USA

30 Mar 2009, 5:28 pm

Time to change society then. Make it a crime to lie. Serve jail time.



Last edited by KenM on 30 Mar 2009, 5:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

solinoure
Sea Gull
Sea Gull

User avatar

Joined: 16 Feb 2009
Age: 51
Gender: Male
Posts: 211
Location: Toontown, Texas

30 Mar 2009, 5:34 pm

arielhawksquill wrote:
I doubt they're thinking about it--they may not even remember doing it.


I think forgetfulness has a lot to do with it. Those on the spectrum seem to have a talent for remebering while NT's seem to be very talented at forgeting. A brush off done in bland friendlyness is not memorable, but blunt denial... it can hurt feelings - and hurt feelings ARE memorable and can lead to resentment for NT's. NT's can't handle the truth at a conscience level - so they let their instincts handle the truth part and feed their conscience a lie. For NT to NT communication, this works great. Aspies, however, can't instinctively see the truth in the animal comunication and end up believeing the lie that is only there to keep upset from happening. So, aspies take the words of the brush off and assume that the offer of friendship is sincere when it is not.

arielhawksquill wrote:
Dishonesty seems to be a uniquely human trait.


Actually - it isn't. Dishonesty and deception are well documented among apes and monkeys in general and among other species too. And... a lot of the dishonesty revolves around the mating game. Its a lot of rogue males pretending they don't want "any" (like younger male apes hiding their erections from the older dominant males) when they really really do, and the females quitely slipping off to get them some genetic diversity... and the quietly is literal. Female apes will make lots of noise when mating with a dominant male attacting lots of attention from others in an effort to show they are prefered my the high status male - basically social climbing, But, when the femal runs off with the 'lesser' males, she mates quitely so as not to attract dominant male attention. Sneakyness is an animal thing.

Most people (NT's) are men and women, i.e. animals, first and people second. Aspies, with the damaged social abilities, can't really function as animals first and have little choice but to be people first.

Mind you - I am NOT saying that NTs are NOT people. I am just saying that their animal sides, their instincts, are well enough develoved that they only occasionally need to access the higher functioning parts of the brain that we aspies live in.


_________________
The river tells no lies - but, the dishonest man, standing near, will hear them. - Oma
I am not responsible for what I say - you are! I am only responsible for the words I speak. - me


solinoure
Sea Gull
Sea Gull

User avatar

Joined: 16 Feb 2009
Age: 51
Gender: Male
Posts: 211
Location: Toontown, Texas

30 Mar 2009, 6:10 pm

KenM wrote:
Time to change society then. Make it a crime to lie. Serve jail time.


You are kidding - right?


_________________
The river tells no lies - but, the dishonest man, standing near, will hear them. - Oma
I am not responsible for what I say - you are! I am only responsible for the words I speak. - me


arielhawksquill
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 28 Jun 2008
Age: 43
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,856
Location: Midwest

30 Mar 2009, 6:13 pm

KenM wrote:
Time to change society then. Make it a crime to lie. Serve jail time.


Time for a little self-examination. How did you get so hung up on an unrealistic expectation and idealization of total honesty? Is it because of a religious conviction, like Christianity or Buddhism? Or is it because your AS mind just can't handle the subtlety and paradoxes of multivalent communication?

Honestly, your obsession with this issue and statements like the one quoted above freak me out, because I am now imagining every guy I ever said "Thanks, but no thanks" to is home cleaning his gun and planning to purify the world with his vengeance on me. Or planning to enact laws that all women must submit to all males who want to sleep with them, or something similarly violent and controlling.



KenM
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Oct 2005
Age: 51
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,597
Location: Mass. USA

30 Mar 2009, 6:22 pm

I've said it before and I'll say it again. I challenge anyone to go through all I have been through. Being rejected all my life. Having the women say "I just want to be friends" when they don't mean it. Never been on a date, nothing for as long as I have and not feel the same way about women. Please don't tell me to work on myself, get help, ect.. I've heard it all before, done it all before, nothing helps.



arielhawksquill
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 28 Jun 2008
Age: 43
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,856
Location: Midwest

30 Mar 2009, 6:24 pm

KenM wrote:
I've said it before and I'll say it again. I challenge anyone to go through all I have been through. Being rejected all my life. Having the women say "I just want to be friends" when they don't mean it. Never been on a date, nothing for as long as I have and not feel the same way about women. Please don't tell me to work on myself, get help, ect.. I've heard it all before, done it all before, nothing helps.


Well then GIVE UP, man! Why are you still here? I think your plea about "needing to know why" in the subject of this thread was disingenuous.



Gainer
Blue Jay
Blue Jay

User avatar

Joined: 28 Jul 2008
Age: 34
Gender: Male
Posts: 84

30 Mar 2009, 6:47 pm

KenM wrote:
I've said it before and I'll say it again. I challenge anyone to go through all I have been through. Being rejected all my life. Having the women say "I just want to be friends" when they don't mean it. Never been on a date, nothing for as long as I have and not feel the same way about women. Please don't tell me to work on myself, get help, ect.. I've heard it all before, done it all before, nothing helps.


Everyone on this site that is an aspie has been rejected for most if not all our lives. These people understands you better than you think. Who else will know why you do certain things, or why you do not understand female NT behaviour?



Ladarzak
Velociraptor
Velociraptor

User avatar

Joined: 9 Mar 2007
Age: 59
Gender: Female
Posts: 401
Location: Vancouver, Canada

30 Mar 2009, 8:20 pm

Apart from kindness trumps truth in society, which I think is generally true, you fail to realize that most people are afraid of conflict. Truth can lead to conflict. Women are usually smaller and weaker than men and tend to avoid the risk of conflict more than men.

You have a lot to learn. I wish the world would change, too, in various ways but I don't expect most other people to agree with me as to what makes sense or not.

Stop being me-me-me and think of it from the other person's point of view, and you may gain some insight. Seriously, you need to be more receptive because obviously your way is not working.

There. There's some blunt truth for you, as I see it.



Kilroy
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 24 Apr 2007
Age: 30
Gender: Male
Posts: 13,321
Location: Beyond the Void

30 Mar 2009, 8:26 pm

KenM wrote:
Time to change society then. Make it a crime to lie. Serve jail time.


that is the stupidest thing I have ever heard

I refuse to try and explain this "problem" to you
you seem to have a lot of s**t going on
being "let down" is part of life, its a normal part of it
just because you want the world to work your way and oppress women who won't f**k you isn't my problem
so stop saying your going to leave-and leave
or don't leave-and stop saying you will!
its pretty annoying