I need to know why society think its ok to lie?

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12 Apr 2009, 6:34 pm

KenM wrote:
Spokane_Girl wrote:
You're a whiner, you're a cry baby, selfish, expect everyone to your standards, use your AS as an excuse and you do the victim complex.


Can you handle that truth? :P


In this case I feel my AS is helping sort through the BS. Its an asset. I see that now. Youwill see me anyway you want to.



I'm sorry but that is my genuine opinion of you. You want honesty, I gave it to you.


Don't worry I don't go around talking like that unless they ask for my opinion. I just wanted to see how you would handle it :P



KenM
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12 Apr 2009, 6:48 pm

I'm ok with it. I'm not upset and respect you more for being honest. See, I can take it. Unlike most people, it seems.



ReeseLightnin
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13 Apr 2009, 8:25 am

KenM wrote:
I guess society just is not ready for me. Everyone is too scared to face the truth and cry like little girls when people tell the truth. p*****s. I'm stronger then everyone because I can handle the truth.

You're the furthest thing from someone that can handle the truth that I've ever seen in my life. You hide from the truth, you cringe away from it.



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13 Apr 2009, 12:47 pm

As said, Ken... to their mind, they are being honest - and your single request, especially if made in a general sense, will have no bearing on how they will respond in every situation. You want people to be direct, not necessarily honest - and you can't control how other people act. The truth is that people are going to act in their own best interests, according to their own experiences and beliefs, not your requests, demands or expectations. You can either be honest with yourself and expect it, or continue to push people away.


M.


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13 Apr 2009, 3:39 pm

Can someone explain to me when a women says "I just want to be friends" when they want nothing to do with you is being honest? Because thats what I'm wondering. In there mind they are being honset. But it does not fit the defintion of honesty. They are saying one thing but meaning something totally different.


Honesty
One entry found.

hon·es·ty
Pronunciation: \ˈä-nəs-tē\
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural hon·es·ties
Date: 14th century
1obsolete : chastity
2 a: fairness and straightforwardness of conduct b: adherence to the facts : sincerity
3: any of a genus (Lunaria) of European herbs of the mustard family with toothed leaves and flat disk-shaped siliques
synonyms honesty , honor , integrity , probity mean uprightness of character or action. honesty implies a refusal to lie, steal, or deceive in any way. honor suggests an active or anxious regard for the standards of one's profession, calling, or position. integrity implies trustworthiness and incorruptibility to a degree that one is incapable of being false to a trust, responsibility, or pledge. probity implies tried and proven honesty or integrity.



Last edited by KenM on 13 Apr 2009, 4:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

13 Apr 2009, 4:11 pm

You know what "I just want to be friends" means. :roll:


I'm done here.



KenM
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13 Apr 2009, 4:17 pm

Spokane_Girl wrote:
You know what "I just want to be friends" means. :roll:


I'm done here.



But its not honest. Thats what I'm trying to understand. How can someone say A and mean B and think its honest and ok.



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13 Apr 2009, 4:29 pm

It's called taking a hint. Spokane_Girl is right about you...



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13 Apr 2009, 4:38 pm

KenM wrote:
Can someone explain to me when a women says "I just want to be friends" when they want nothing to do with you is being honest? Because thats what I'm wondering. In there mind they are being honset. But it does not fit the defintion of honesty. They are saying one thing but meaning something totally different.


It's more complicated than that. First of all, it rarely means they want nothing to do with you. It usually means that they feel awkward around you since they don't want what you do, but you keep persisting. Stop putting her on the spot, act like her friend, & she'll be it.

You also seem to think women have absolute knowledge & control of everything when in reality they're just as clueless as us. White lies are merely a deflection to avoid giving an awkward answer, & everyone does it; even you probably have. Just women tend to need to do it more. If someone asked you to do something right away & you really didn't want to, you'd likely say "not right now, I've gotta go" even when you don't have to, or at least not as quickly as you say. Certianly more friendly than "I don't really care to help you". People do it all the time; most of the time not even realizing it.

Don't push people into giving you answers you don't want to hear if you don't wanna hear white lies?



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13 Apr 2009, 5:05 pm

AceOfSpades wrote:
It's called taking a hint. Spokane_Girl is right about you...


Yes she knows me so good, can read me like a book. :roll:



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13 Apr 2009, 6:44 pm

KenM wrote:
Can someone explain to me when a women says "I just want to be friends" when they want nothing to do with you is being honest? Because thats what I'm wondering. In there mind they are being honset. But it does not fit the defintion of honesty. They are saying one thing but meaning something totally different.




Because it is commonly understood that "I just want to be friends" is code for "I'm not interested in you at all". These women are operating under the assumption that everyone understands these codes; and it is not lying to say something that means another thing when you think that the person you are speaking to will know what was actually meant.


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Plagal cadence: IV-I
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-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I! I! I! I I I


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13 Apr 2009, 8:51 pm

*deep breath*

To many people, words are algebra - the same symbol can have variable meanings depending the context (equation). You're just solving for different problems.


M.


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GhostsInTheWallpaper
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13 Apr 2009, 11:03 pm

As people have mentioned here, most people lie because it's considered proper etiquette in certain situations where telling the truth is seen as aggressive. And as others have also mentioned, sometimes by "friends" people really mean "acquaintances who are not on bad terms."

That said, I've heard that many ex-partners cannot easily remain on good terms.

And also, "let's be friends" is understood almost universally by NTs as meaning "back off," and we NTs don't tend to know if someone's an Aspie unless they tell us. (Or if someone else who knows them tells us. I met my bf through his best friend, who told me that my bf is an Aspie...and I also heard stuff about my stepsisters' mother's current husband that made me think he was almost surely even farther on the spectrum than my boyfriend. And he does move like a Spectrumite, though I still have never talked to him.)

If you specifically asked them to be honest, well...keep this in mind: we NTs often learn to assume, via experience, that other people (presumed to be NT, since non-autistic people make up about 99.4% of the population) lie. So they might not have believed you that you would actually be happier to have them be honest with you.

Not to mention that anyone being needy, be they male or female, is a turn-off to those romantically interested. So if you come on too strong, or too creepy, you will scare people away. Even Aspie people. My bf was scared away by a woman with dysgraphia, epilepsy, and probably some other neurological quirk, who is very needy. Then again, he has also traditionally been scared away by NTs who just wanted a normal romantic/sexual relationship with him, because too much sexual expression is against his "rules," which are basically baggage left over from his growing up where he believes that if he tries anything new he might face social rejection or other dire consequences. He has overturned "rules" gradually as he has wanted new things in life and drifted away from his older, narrower, more religious social circles and lived more according to his nonbelieving heart.

So basically, these people were specifically trying NOT to hurt you, while also letting you know that they, in their current states, did not feel that you in your current state would be a good partner for them. They could have not lied to you, but you'd probably still be here angsting out about how they always reject you.


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14 Apr 2009, 5:01 am

GhostsInTheWallpaper wrote:

If you specifically asked them to be honest, well...keep this in mind: we NTs often learn to assume, via experience, that other people (presumed to be NT, since non-autistic people make up about 99.4% of the population) lie. So they might not have believed you that you would actually be happier to have them be honest with you.


So basically, these people were specifically trying NOT to hurt you, while also letting you know that they, in their current states, did not feel that you in your current state would be a good partner for them. They could have not lied to you, but you'd probably still be here angsting out about how they always reject you.



I've said before that I have had a few women tell me flat out they are not interested and want nothing to do woth me. I have no ill will towards them and I respect them more for being honest. I have told everyone to be honest and most totally disrespect me by misleading me. I don't tell them I have AS. But i do tell them I take what you say literally, I can't read body languge, vocal tone, ect.. I take what you say as what you mean. But they still say they want to be friends when they want nothing to do with me. :roll:



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14 Apr 2009, 9:33 am

Yet you know that what they say isn't meant literally in this case, but continue to complain about it. You already know the truth of the situation, but refuse to accept it, at least how it seems to me.


M.


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