Afghan leader accused of bid to 'legalise rape'
Apparantly this law is no longer going through, because British troops can't die for a land that doesn't respect women. Squadies all being feminists and all.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/ap ... -law-scrap
I find this offensive for its obtuseness. Marital rape was completely legal in some places in the US and throughout the UK less than 20 years ago, and is still far less punishable than non-marital rape in most places. . . . so yes, "these people" have the nerve to call *us* immoral, and I daresay any among us who are well informed will deign to join them.
Also, it's worth noting that with couch and teepee type traditions, there are two factors to be considered--the social tradition that exists, and where the law stands in the enforcement of that tradition. By tradition, the freedom to make your husband sleep on the couch has been around at least since the 70s--but without legal enforcement, it means a lot less.
_________________
And if I die before I learn to speak
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CanyonWind
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This is an outrage. Those people over there got their gender discrimination backwards.
From the Guardian article:
We gotta force them to fix that, force them to practice gender discrimination in the correct direction.
_________________
They murdered boys in Mississippi. They shot Medgar in the back.
Did you say that wasn't proper? Did you march out on the track?
You were quiet, just like mice. And now you say that we're not nice.
Well thank you buddy for your advice...
-Malvina
I find this offensive for its obtuseness. Marital rape was completely legal in some places in the US and throughout the UK less than 20 years ago, and is still far less punishable than non-marital rape in most places. . . . so yes, "these people" have the nerve to call *us* immoral, and I daresay any among us who are well informed will deign to join them.
Also, it's worth noting that with couch and teepee type traditions, there are two factors to be considered--the social tradition that exists, and where the law stands in the enforcement of that tradition. By tradition, the freedom to make your husband sleep on the couch has been around at least since the 70s--but without legal enforcement, it means a lot less.
Yeah well what if she said Christian fundies...would your attitude be different then?
TBH....and this is probably going to piss a lot of people off because I'm coming off "discriminatory" but the Islam faith seems much harsher in crimes and punishments with women than they are among the christian faith.
BTW, if you assume I'm advocating christianity as the solution...you're wrong. I believe in neither.
_________________
I live as I choose or I will not live at all.
~Delores O’Riordan
Yes--because to complain about Islam on an anglocentric site has a stronger edge of xenophobia than to complain about Christianity. I would still have defended it though; other things being equal, hypocrisy should be called out regardless of its origin.
It may very well be the case that Christianity treats women better than Islam, but as a nation we still don't have a lot of room to go around being shocked and horrified about their "stone-age" views on this matter. It's as if we're incapable of recalling our own behavior for the past half century, and it makes me sick.
_________________
And if I die before I learn to speak
will money pay for all the days I lived awake but half asleep
I find this offensive for its obtuseness. Marital rape was completely legal in some places in the US and throughout the UK less than 20 years ago, and is still far less punishable than non-marital rape in most places. . . . so yes, "these people" have the nerve to call *us* immoral, and I daresay any among us who are well informed will deign to join them.
Also, it's worth noting that with couch and teepee type traditions, there are two factors to be considered--the social tradition that exists, and where the law stands in the enforcement of that tradition. By tradition, the freedom to make your husband sleep on the couch has been around at least since the 70s--but without legal enforcement, it means a lot less.
anna is not American.....
and what part of '(muslim fundies)' you didn't see?
I think you are making a big tado about nothing Jainaday, plus you have contradicted yourself by admitting you believe in 'positive' discrimination. She said Islamic fundamentalist, that is an accurate term to describe this, and what was used in various news reports too. They are fundamentalist and they are Islamist.
You are making the assumption that she thinks that all Muslims are like that, which is not what she said.
Hamid Karzai is not a fundamentalist but he is appeasing them, you could feel that he has no choice to but it is Islamist that are behind such laws.
CanyonWind
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Joined: 11 Sep 2006
Age: 72
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,656
Location: West of the Great Divide
Let's be fair about this. There's some pretty bad stuff being done in the name of Judaism too. A place called Gaza comes to mind.
I've heard it claimed that there's never been a war fought in the name of Buddhism. Even if that's true, there's been a lot of wars started by people raised as Buddhists in Buddhist countries.
And during the twentieth century in the Soviet Union, China, and Cambodia, millions of innocent people were murdered in efforts to create atheist utopias.
There's a real shortage of innocent belief systems.
_________________
They murdered boys in Mississippi. They shot Medgar in the back.
Did you say that wasn't proper? Did you march out on the track?
You were quiet, just like mice. And now you say that we're not nice.
Well thank you buddy for your advice...
-Malvina
It's a myth that the massacres done by the communists were made in the name of atheism, they were made in the name of Communism, an ideology and a system which has a lot of common with Religion (Communists worshiped their leaders instead of gods). In other hand , atheism is not a set of beliefs and ideologies like Communism.
Basically agree with what you're saying but need to add that is was done in the name of a gross missinterprataion of what communism was meant to be, the worship of leaders has nothing to do with the original idea.
anna is not American.....
and what part of '(muslim fundies)' you didn't see?
She defended the morality of "us." Since this is an American based, English Language site, it seems fair to assume the historical references I made to the immorality of the UK and the US would be applicable.
_________________
And if I die before I learn to speak
will money pay for all the days I lived awake but half asleep
So are we not allowed to respond to the topic because we're "hypocrites" or politically incorrect?
I believe many of us are only responding to this issue regarding Afghanistan and Islam, which is what this topic was originally about. I see nothing wrong with that and we can also add how barbaric other beliefs and religions have been through the centuries but that would take forever and it would go off topic. I really don't see why it is fair to assume that even though some of us are against these practices we we're automatically hypocrites or being discriminatory. I believe Anna lucidated herself well in saying fundemental muslims not muslims or all muslims and I think she is entitled to her opinion.
Anyway, I believe we all have the right to give our own opinion. I really don't think she was coming off as a discriminator against muslims in general or being a hypocrite since we don't all know eachother. If you assume we all think alike than that would be just as well as the pot calling the kettle black.
_________________
I live as I choose or I will not live at all.
~Delores O’Riordan
I believe many of us are only responding to this issue regarding Afghanistan and Islam, which is what this topic was originally about. I see nothing wrong with that and we can also add how barbaric other beliefs and religions have been through the centuries but that would take forever and it would go off topic. I really don't see why it is fair to assume that even though some of us are against these practices we we're automatically hypocrites or being discriminatory. I believe Anna lucidated herself well in saying fundemental muslims not muslims or all muslims and I think she is entitled to her opinion.
Anyway, I believe we all have the right to give our own opinion. I really don't think she was coming off as a discriminator against muslims in general or being a hypocrite since we don't all know eachother. If you assume we all think alike than that would be just as well as the pot calling the kettle black.
HOLY CRAP.
I know I haven't posted for awhile, but I don't remember people on this site having such a profound unablity to Read.
For the record, I responded to This Statement:
I defended the right of "these people" to call *us* immoral, which history--for those who care to bother with such things--Obviously vindicates.
I did not assume everyone was the same; I did not assume that the poster intended to refer to others besides Muslim fundamentalists; I did not assume that to be against the practice of marital rape makes one a hypocrite. They are immoral; we (as a nation) are, in fact also immoral. Therefore, yes, they have the right to call us so.
_________________
And if I die before I learn to speak
will money pay for all the days I lived awake but half asleep
anna is not American.....
and what part of '(muslim fundies)' you didn't see?
She defended the morality of "us." Since this is an American based, English Language site, it seems fair to assume the historical references I made to the immorality of the UK and the US would be applicable.
....and she's not british either
I believe she meant by "us" the atheist/agnostic/non-religious populations and she's not referring to particular country , and yes Muslim fundies do call these people 'immoral'.
And even if she meant it by European people she still right, Muslim fundies do claim that they are the most moralist people ever and Christian Europeans are 'unclean' and immoral people while in fact the Europeans hold human rights much higher than any of those Muslim fundies.
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