Aspergers Syndrome and Conduct Disorder? What do you think?

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There is a study that suggests that children with Aspergers Syndrome DO NOT present as often with Conduct Disorder?

I am therefore asking those of you out there with a child diagnosed with Aspergers Syndrome for your take on this. I am not so sure. Conduct Disorder appears to be more associated with ADHD, SO either some are being misdiagnosed OR perhaps the study has not looked carefully enough.

So I have started a poll, hope you don't mind. Thanks very much for your participation.
And for those of you uncertain as to the difference of ODD and CD. Here is the information.

OPPOSITIONAL DEFIANCE DISORDER
5 of the following behaviours occurred over a period of at least 6 months

1 Child often loses temper.
2 Child often argues with adults.
3 Child often actively defies or refuses adult requests or rules (e.g. refuses to complete work).
4 Child often deliberately does things intended to annoy others (e.g. flicks stationary at staff or pupils).
5 Child often blames others for child’s own mistakes.
6 Child is often touch or easily annoyed by others.
7 Child often angry and resentful.
8 Child is often spiteful or vindictive.
9 Child often swears or uses obscene language.

CONDUCT DISORDER
Symptoms of conduct disorder?

Symptoms are grouped into four areas.
1. Aggression to people and animals
Often bullies, threatens or intimidates others.
Often initiates physical fights.
Has used a weapon that could cause serious physical harm to others (eg a bat, brick, broken bottle, knife or gun).
Is physically cruel to people or animals.
Steals from a victim while confronting them (eg assault, mugging, purse-snatching).
Forces someone into sexual activity.

2. Destruction of property
Deliberately engages in fire-setting with the intention to cause damage.
Deliberately destroys someone else’s property (other than by arson).

3. Deceitfulness, lying or stealing
Has broken into someone else’s building, house, or car.
Lies to obtain goods or favours or to avoid obligations.
Steals items without confronting a victim (eg shoplifting without breaking and entering, forgery).

4. Serious violations of rules
Often stays out at night despite parental objections before the age of 13.
Runs away from home – at least twice overnight or once for a longer period.
Often truant from school before the age of 13.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR PARTICIPATION

Tried to put a THIRD option of Oppositional Defiance disorder but it won't have it! Sorry!

My 7 year old son is diagnosed with Asperger's and his behaviour doesn't match the criteria for Conduct Disorder in any way. Far from it.

He does show some of the behaviours associated with Oppositional Defiant Disorder, but I would say that this is due to the Asperger's, not additional to it. For example, he may lose his temper, but this is due to the "black and white" thinking associated with Asperger's. He may also get annoyed with others, but I think this could be attributed to his lack of Theory of Mind, and his difficulties with pragmatic language.

My son does have a friend, an 8 year old boy he has known since he was a baby, who does show behaviours associated with Oppositional Defiant Disorder and also possibly Conduct Disorder. That boy was assessed for Autism, and did show some traits, but not enough for a diagnosis.

Thank you Marcia for your reply. It would seem to me that Conduct Disorder is being 'labelled' a separate 'disorder' and doesn't apply to Autism Spectrum Conditions which of course ASPERGERS is? But MY argument is that ADHD (even though it isn't seen as such) should be classified as on the spectrum too. I have rarely met a PURE Asperger or ADHD without some other co morbidities or co existing conditions being evident too. And I question how correctly DX are being made even? so therefore how can it be NOT associated with Spectrum conditions? Uggg. Trying to get my head around it all!

Any other opinions gratefully welcomed!

My son was referred, by the Educational Psychologist, for an ADHD assessment. That was before he was formally diagnosed as AS, but while everyone was working informally on the understanding that he was!

The Community Autism Team who assessed and diagnosed him, as well as his teachers and myself, now agree that he isn't ADHD. He is extremely active, and always has been, but that is being attributed to his sensory issues, which are seen as being related to, but not part of, his Asperger's.

My son was diagnosed according to the WHO criteria, which focus on communication difficulties, so the sensory issues are to be assessed separately by Occupational Therapy.

We're in Scotland, btw.

for quite awhile, the docs felt son had conduct disorder & not as.......as it turns out, the reason that he was exhibiting most of those behaviors (fights, lying, breaking rules) was due to the fact that he misunderstood people more often than he understood them, he felt misunderstood himself & he misinterpreted others' intentions- felt that others were out to get him.

What is interesting, well, to me, is that in many ways my son was on the road to many of those things before he diagnosed, simply because he was so frustrated and so much was mishandled. Once everyone started dealing with him appropriately, he stopped going down that road. The child I know today clearly does NOT meet those criteria.

I really worry with some of these things how much is reactive. If we hadn't figured out the AS and my son had gone further down the road with those traits, I now know it would have been reactive. But would we have then? I can only be grateful the AS was figured out.

DW_a_mom you raise a very interesting point, actually made by this study.

It would appear that once a Dx IS given (often later rather than earlier, sadly) then problems start to sort themselves out as we get better informed.

However the intentionality is an issue? Conduct disorder is intentional? I am still mulling it all around in my ever tired brain and slowly coming round to the realisation that Conduct Disorder is a separate issue............but I do think if a child is predisopsed either by genetics or enviroment, they have a very poor future

DSM and DCD are still way off the mark, there is a long way to go yet until, I personally will be happy with it. Everything takes sooo long to filter through and for US to see the changes and take advantage of services and support. My H drives me mad sometimes, I want everything done TODAY! Uggggg

My son shows several signs of ODD, but none of Conduct Disorder. I'm not really sure I'm completely understanding what the point is...are you trying to show that ODD and Conduct Disorder are both things that can comorbate with ASD, or are you saying that only one of them does....yes, I think I'm lost. It's late afternoon, all 3 of my kids have had the stomach flu this week...forgive me.

somebond lumped "ASPERGERS SYNDROME", "OPPOSITIONAL DEFIANCE DISORDER" and "CONDUCT DISORDER"

When did this happen?

Kinds with Conduct Disorder are very social. They actively bully other children. They are manipulative and deceitful. They have no trouble working the system and causing deliberate chaos.

Children on the spectrum might have disruptive behaviors, but they are too inwardly focused to cause the deliberate distruction that you see with CD.

I had traits like that as a kid but it was just me lashing out because of being bullied and no one doing anything about it or because people would not explain why something had to be done or why I was not allowed to do something. I was often told things such as "Because I said so" or "Because I am the parent and you are the child". I was bullied all the time but told it was my fault or accused of being a tattle tail. If I ever was sexualy abused I bet people would think that was my fault too and the police would think I was just being a tattletail.