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Tomasu
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09 May 2009, 8:52 am

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_rig ... ment#Terms

^^ Greetings everyone. The link above briefly explains the beliefs (many of them set out in Peter Singer's Animal Liberation) surrounding animal rights. I cannot understand why non-humans are viewed as inferior and less important than humans. These movements almost match my happy beliefs completely, however I disagree with some ways in which they put across their ideas, mainly those that involve violence such as arson. ^^ I believe I am rather curious of the views of individuals here, although I know many here eat meat. Sorry if I this causes any trouble.



Sand
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09 May 2009, 9:26 am

All animals exploit their environment. Animals are part of the environment and humans are animals. I do not consider animals inferior or superior. They are adapted to a large extent to their environment and since human environments differ from other animals we each have capabilities appropriate. I do not eat meat and I try to give as many animals, human and otherwise, as much leeway in staying alive and as comfortable as possible. But rights are not granted by any supernatural regulation. They are proposed and agreed upon by parties involved. Nature does not permit me to allow certain living creatures to live. I kill millions of invaders every day that try to kill me. I don't like it but that's how life is arranged.



gina-ghettoprincess
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09 May 2009, 10:46 am

I am a vegetarian and I believe that animals should be treated with respect and they shouldn't be harmed or killed unnecessarily.

I highlighted the last word so much because I often get asked stupid questions like, "Would you kill yourself to save a hamster?" I generally don't even dignify questions like this with a response.


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09 May 2009, 1:42 pm

I don't like animals at all, but lately I haven't been eating meat. It seems very unnecessary to me. The other day I was about to pick up Singer's Animal Liberation, but I decided not to (I'll probably pick it up later at some point).



parts
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09 May 2009, 6:46 pm

This is more along the way I see it. Just part 1 you can get the idea or find the other parts
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAt1z_TgPQ4


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MissConstrue
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09 May 2009, 6:57 pm

As an aspie or whatnot, I find myself feeling more sorry for animals than people when killed or tortured..... :?


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phil777
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10 May 2009, 1:58 am

Well, we are smart enough to breed some species so we can eat them, so they don't suffer "too" much (but heh, even there it depends, as i'm sure horror stories could abound). My dad recently argued the decision of the EU to call an embargo on walrus (or is it seal?) fur products, because they reproduce a lot, and apparently we don't even kill half of the total population, which gives them a lot of lee way to populate back.



Dussel
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10 May 2009, 5:16 am

Tomasu wrote:
^^ Greetings everyone. The link above briefly explains the beliefs (many of them set out in Peter Singer's Animal Liberation) surrounding animal rights. I cannot understand why non-humans are viewed as inferior and less important than humans.


OK - If animals think they have rights, why the do not file a case in court?

---

Or to be more specific: Having rights is human concept. A human being can have rights, also an institution set up by humans can have rights (the state, companies, etc.). The whole concept of "rights" is alien to animals - even our closed relatives with whom we share a lot of pattern, even ideas regarding moarl behaviour, do not have a concept of "rights" or Courts of Law.



anna-banana
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10 May 2009, 6:05 am

I agree with Dussel about the concept of "rights" being a purely human concept. even if we gave animals "rights" they would remain completely unaware and unconcearned about them. also- if we give formal rights to animals, then what's going to be next? plants? foetusues?? :wink: :P

there's no point. that being said, I personally don't kill or eat animals (although I have a few scenarios where I would eat them, but purely hypothetical). I don't condemn people that do, after all this is the way this world works that animals eat each other. but I think it's completely unnecessary for me to eat meat. secondly, I don't make a distinction between humans and other creatures, we might be literate and outspoken and have frontal lobes but we're still genetically very similar. animals are also individuals pursuing happiness, even if their happiness means lying in the sun all day munching grass and farting.

so I personally believe that they should be able to live their lives happily, even if some human is going to make them into steak in the end. I don't think it should be a formal "right" defended by lawyers and defined by constitutionalists, but let's just say that if there ever was a animals vs humans battle, I'd be on team animals :P


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Sand
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10 May 2009, 7:04 am

It is not so much a matter of rights but a sense of the type of world you prefer to live in. Animals may not have rights in the formal sense but hey do have needs and they can suffer. Would you prefer a world where nothing but humans existed? That all the lions and tigers and elephants and rhinoceroses were mere memories like dinosaurs? If a world is preferable with other strange and interesting creatures, then provisions must be made for them to exist. Only humans have begun to have the capability to make this decision. I would prefer it to be the right one.



anna-banana
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10 May 2009, 7:15 am

I just remembered something that Singer wrote about how people's ideas change, how just some 80 years ago it was considered desirable to go to Africa for a safari and kill a lion or something, how all civilised, upper-class people would do that. but the way we perceive animals have changed and now doing so is condemned (like the Saudi Arabian princesses who go to Siberia to hunt for Siberian Tigers). so Singer says that in some years there will be another massive shift in the way people look at animals, he even coined the term "speciesm" for what it's going to be called to discriminate against animals.

this might be controversial, but I think it's necessary for humans to realise how closely related we are to animals and that they also have emotions and inner lives. it's still not common knowledge, most people still don't believe that animals have emotions when in fact it's been proven long ago that they do (I personally think their emotions are stronger then ours, because they lack the verbal, rational part).


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10 May 2009, 9:36 am

Helping those less fortunate (including animals) isn't a bad thing to do. Telling other people how to live their lives is.



ruveyn
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10 May 2009, 10:24 am

Tomasu wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_rights_movement#Terms

^^ Greetings everyone. The link above briefly explains the beliefs (many of them set out in Peter Singer's Animal Liberation) surrounding animal rights. I cannot understand why non-humans are viewed as inferior and less important than humans. These movements almost match my happy beliefs completely, however I disagree with some ways in which they put across their ideas, mainly those that involve violence such as arson. ^^ I believe I am rather curious of the views of individuals here, although I know many here eat meat. Sorry if I this causes any trouble.


As long as the flesh of some mammals, fish and fowl are as tasty as they are when properly cooks, this critters have no rights I am bound to respect. They are protein sources. And please do not bother me with soybean arguments. A soybean will never taste as good as a well-braised lamb shank.

ruveyn



Tomasu
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10 May 2009, 10:32 am

^^ Wow, I must say I did not expect so many replies. Firstly, the term 'rights' here is merely a coined term for what is trying to be achieved here in my opinion. As Sand has said, it is their ability to suffer and feel that is considered here. Dussel (I am not certain if you are being sarcastic), they cannot file a court case I believe, if they could, I believe this process would be much easier. I believe this is similar to saying that it is quite alright to eat babies as they cannot file a court case.^^ Non-humans do not speak the same type of language as humans, which of course causes problems. And MDD123, I am very sorry if I am seem to be demanding of other individuals how to live their lives. I wish not to do this at all. ^^ This is my belief and was simply curious how others felt, and wished to discuss this.
^^ Also, I must say I agree completely with what gina-ghettoprincess has said. There comes a great paradox with attempting not to harm any individual. For instance, some do not have the choice except to eat meat. I believe as long suffering may be spared unnecessarily then this should be carried. ^^ However, the term 'unnecessarily' could be discussed for a very long time I believe. Many in this topic have used 'we', meaning humans in general as though non-humans are not a part of this. I believe that a universal 'we' should include all individuals. ^^ I am very sorry if I have been horrible, thank you all very much for your replies.
Also, Ana, I believe I agree with you in that it is difficult to draw a line. ^^ However I do feel this must be considered otherwise a great injustice is being comitted. For instance, with plants it does not seem that plants can suffer or feel. (Though one can never be 100% certain).
Ruveyn, in answer to your post, if you found human meat tasty and a good source of protein, would you eat it knowing many humans have died and suffered to give you this tasty food, may I ask? ^^ Again, I am not trying to demand anything of others and am very sorry if this seems to be the case.

PS Dussel, when you made your post, I believe this happily reminded me when a happy individual said to me, whilst laughing 'Are you going to give cows a right to vote?'.



MikeH106
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10 May 2009, 12:30 pm

MDD123 wrote:
Helping those less fortunate (including animals) isn't a bad thing to do. Telling other people how to live their lives is.


Isn't that what the American law force does?


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