Attwood responds to petition

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Attwood has made a firm public statement that Aspies do NOT make bad partners and parents, nor are they
any more prone to be violent.

This came in response to a recent petition
objecting to Attwood's involvement with two NT/AS relationship support groups, FAAAS and ASPIA. (Well, technically it came right after the petition, anyway. Tony doesn't mention it.) These groups had both published material which claimed that Aspies are prone to be abusive and damaging to the NT's close to them. Attwood frequently collaborated with these groups. The Aspie community was objecting to Attwood lending his credibility toward what was perceived as hate speech.

from http://www.faaas.org/doc.php?29,358 :

That's cool.

I've been thinking about the Attwood areas and I reached a conclusion. Looking at my own life, I am not the same now as I was when I was five years old. The differences in what I was then and what I am now are astounding.

At the age of five, I don't think I "presented" differently just because I was a girl and not a boy. The one issue I had was being liked and accepted by others and I had specific problems in this particular area which, if people are aware and educated about ASDs, might be able to figure out why that was based on this awareness. Teachers need to be made aware boys and girls both can have an ASD/ADHD and just because someone isn't getting along with other children, it's because they must be purposely doing something to sabotage it. Some people do believe that about kids. They will blame the kid and if he or she makes the same mistakes over and over they blame them and may say the child is sabotaging things on purpose, is "bad" doesn't really want or need friends, or deserves to have any, etc. I've heard it all. It's rare the consideration is there might be a biological basis for this inability to make and keep friends. It's getting better but people still need more awareness. More attention needs to be focused on getting them to get along with each other.

Just recently an overweight girl was humiliated in a highschool yearbook, her weight was ridiculed and all her classmates saw it. An administrator or teacher one, wrote an insult under her name in a page in the yearbook. He also wrote something under the name of a student questioning his sexuality. When this sort of thing is still thought of as a joke among the faculty and it's okay because it's funny and they are just kids we have to prepare them for the harshness of life you still have this situation where feelings aren't taken seriously and some of the faculty are still seeing certain students as their personal "jokes" or objects of ridicule. This can cause profound psychological trauma because these teachers have much more influence and authority than they realize and they can shape a student's attitude and ideas about authority figures in general.

On presenting differently ~ However, what I do wonder is do adults generally present differently than children Meaning it's the adult population as a whole that presents differently because we have all experienced different events in childhood that influence the way we handle our lives as adults.

I think it is great that Attwood posted the statement.

My attendance a while back at an Attwood/Henault seminar on AS and relationships bears out this position. It was very, very constructive and helpful. I am implementing a lot of CBT strategies -working with an ASD clinical psychologist - at present, and for the first time in my life I am finding some peace in relation to myself and also my relationships at home in our rather novel family life.

When a family is touched by an ASD - it can be difficult. And when a family gets the required help it needs and craves inorder to function well - it can be a reason to really celebrate.
Most of the strategies I am implementing are from the Minds and Hearts methods. Lots of CBT and lots of AS personal management and responsibilities. I have a history of terrible meltdowns. These are lessening in frequency, duration and intensity. It is really very important, and I am grateful.

I am someone who has benefited enormously from the strategies Minds and Hearts has developed and implemented.
most importantly, my son -at age 7 - is finding out that i can be a peaceful person who loves him very. very much, in her own funny little way. that is a gift.

Atwood is an outsider, but he first admitted to learning from the autistic, and now seeing them as real people. Progress.

I imagine it is a shock to one, come to understand how much of the world learns from him, and that many disagree with some of what he says.

Autistics are not, they do not exist. On a scale of -10 to 0 to +10, on a hundred subjects, they are.

Humans have the same problems, range, and many married people speak a hundred words a year, and continue. Others want to figure out the meaning behind how the garbage bags are tied, overhand or bow. Raised eyebrows can cause a disaster.

Where each is different, we do have some extra common stuff, and need to be directly told that people keep their distance from us because we spit on them while talking like they were not there. These subjects can be addressed.

That my dog is upset because I got the other brand of dog food, has nothing to do with me, and everything about the stock in the store, but explaining that to the dog is hard.

I do think he has to take one side, that Casandra claims to be depressed, well, it is the most common of human conditions, and the Gods have been messing with her head, and there is more to it than some autist being around.

If he can tell any man how to cope with women, that is Nobel Prize material.

I think he needs focus, he does help, mostly. He may only be spreading around what autists told him worked for them, but it worked, and it still does.

This crossover into how normal people, and women, are affected by the man they married, has little to nothing to do with autism, it might show a lack of common sense, buyers remorse, but there is a lot of that, check the divorce rate, we are less than 1%, half divorce, it is more common than depression. It was not us, and one more thing, there are no normal people.

Attwood may not be perfect, but who else even thinks there are autistic adults?

Who else cares?

The only issue has to be making life better for the autistic.

The place that can be done best is with children, and there he has raised awareness, without calling for throwing them off of bridges.

That he works with adults at all is a wonder, and as millie says, he is right sometimes, and that is a high score on this planet.

He got educated, then popular, and now is trying to do right.

What more can you hope for?

I am happy and glad to read what Tony has written, I am hopeful that he fully disassociates himself from from the ideas and work of Maxine Aston. I am aware that one of his recent books (The Complete Guide to Asperger's Syndrome) includes ideas from the "research" of Maxine in the chapter on "love and relationships" on pages 304 and 309.

In my Mind Maxine has irreversibly tainted herself and her work by coming up with her "Cassandra Affective Deprivation Disorder" and by trying to make money from this idea with her treatments for NT women who are affected with this condition. I would like to point out that I could devise a medical condition to label, denigrate and demonise those who do or say things which I do not like. But I feel morally obligated not to do so, such a course of conduct would be wrong.

I would suggest that Tony should expunge this small amount of text from the next edition and replace it with some more meaningful and better research.

Given that the petition is about his involvement with FAAAS (and not about his personal opinion on these issues), this isn't really a response to the petition at all - the fundamental issue of his name being used to promote the viewpoint of FAAAS has not been addressed.

Until he has himself removed from their Professional Advisory Panel, the petition needs to continue - and as you can see from this link (http://www.faaas.org/doc.php?17,9,,309325p,faa256063,,,Index,map.html), he has not yet done so.

While we are on this subject, shouldn't we with AS be protesting the "lack of empathy" description of those with AS? Doesn't that particular description do us as much harm as anything Maxine Aston has said? Why do we tolerate that description? The words "lack of empathy" when used on the internet to describe people with AS prolly does us much more harm than anything Maxine Aston or Tony Attwood has ever published in a book. The DSM-IV diagnostic criteria doesn't specifically say empathy is something we are incapable of, does it?

Haha. Especially in today's society where the entire purpose of marriage has been lost. People seem to trade in spouses like they do with a car, they are more focused on the engine they want and if they have enough money - than the commitment they made to themselves.


“Marriage is not a love affair. A love affair is a totally different thing. A marriage is a commitment to that which you are. That person is literally your other half. And you and the other are one. A love affair isn’t that. That is a relationship of pleasure, and when it gets to be unpleasurable, it’s off. But a marriage is a life commitment, and a life commitment means the prime concern of your life. If marriage is not the prime concern, you are not married.” -- Joseph Campbell (1904-1987). This man studied humanity, past and present.

When I first learned about Asperger's,it was Tony Attwood's books that gave me not only most
of the basic information to help,but also hope in the positive messages they conveyed about
mutual understanding.My instincts told me that he was sincere in wanting to help and although he isn't beyond making the occasional faux pas in comments about ASDs,I'm glad to see that
it's the respect for treating everyone as individuals that still prevails.

Why are children writing petitions?

After your second divorce, third marraige, children all over the place, you might have some insight into relationship problems. AS might or might not be part of the problem.

Many people have been down this road, and it is true that we are known to upset people, and long term, depression, or axe murder, can be the outcome.

There are no Scientific Standards to marriage, and if Tony wants to hang out with Maxine, teach at FAAAS, drink beer and shoot pool, that is a personal freedom.

This petition demands that adults renounce each other, quit dealing with each other, and cease holding opinions based on their years of life.

Is this the view of one self elected leader with a god complex, or the view of the whole Freshman class?

Maybe because they'd at least like to see discrimination against aspies happen without the full support of the government and the "mental health profession?"



Maybe because they're sick of children and fathers being torn apart to enhance Tony as*hole's bank account?



Not really. Aspie males get abducted by aliens more often than they get married. That's the basis of Tony as*hole's business plan: Jump in with the crowd beating up on the guy nobody believes and nobody cares about.

Hell, it even gets you a fan club on the internet's only significant aspie forum site. Can't beat that.



And if he wants to talk about how he wants to improve the lives of black people while he hangs out, drinks beer, and teaches at Ku Klux Klan meetings, that's personal freedom too.

But I'm not sure too many people would be gullible enough to buy his books, except Ku Klux Klan supporters.



It's the view of anybody who cares about fundamental human rights and human dignity and anybody who objects to child abuse. Even when a skilled used car salesman makes lame-ass excuses while he counts his money.

Apparently that's the world's smallest minority.



What happens to Joe aspie anytime people trust their "instincts" about other people? That's the only reason aspies have any difficulty in life.



You couldn't possibly be suggesting that actively supporting anti-aspie hate groups would be accurately be described as "the occasional faux pas."



Well, one thing we might hope for is Tony as*hole saying something that has at least some connection to reality while he's making excuses for making the lives of aspies far worse.



Uh huh. Right. When has this ever happened? Like Tony as*hole's too dumb to know that custody automatically goes to the parent with tits.

Let's assume the system Tony as*hole is supporting determines who is a good parent without gender bias. Gee that means the male parent would get custody of the children in half of all cases. Okay, how about one quarter of all cases? Uhh, maybe ten percent? Five percent?

There seems to be a statistical anomaly in the data set. Maybe heterosexual males aren't being discriminated against to the extreme detriment of their children, but it's more likely that a meteor would land in a two day old meteor crater.

Obviously, it's going to be even worse for heterosexual aspie males, since when people talk to an aspie, they get the impression that the aspie is stupid, dishonest, incompetent, and deserving of no respect. People trust their "instincts."

Besides, tormenting aspies is fun, since they deserve it anyway.

But Tony as*hole wouldn't be supporting the system if it didn't include provisions for protecting the rights and dignity of aspies and their children.

A heterosexual aspie male who objects to being ridiculed and humiliated by butch the feminist while all his rights are being violated is free to register his objections to butch the feminist or one butch's feminist girlfriends.

Or with some "mental health professional" like Tony as*hole, who obviously will be willing to reduce his income to make a stand for the rights of some weird guy he doesn't like.

But Tony as*hole deeply cares about aspies. See, it says so in his book. Right here.

Talk Show Tony has nothing to do with who has tits, or the courts where lawyers feed, most cultures think children belong with their mothers, and DNA shows many are fathers in name only.

I don't think FAAAS has been lynching people. they are just the other side of a debate.

If they are wrong, it takes dealing with them to change their views.

If anything, Neurodiversity is going to lump autists with the mentally ill, and that does not help at all.

Autism and Asperger's also affects women, and does not make them an unfit mother.

yes, in 95%+ cases the court gives the children to the mother, that is the way the world works.

Tony is a Pop Psyc writer, makes the talk show rounds, and speaks to groups, his expressed views are that autism grades into the general population.

Autism is not a mental illness, is fairly common, and is mostly a personality type. It does have some annoying traits, they should be discussed, and there are methods to understand and overcome the problems.

In the real world relationships do not work out, it is not clinical, it is life, and better the likes of Tony on Relationships, than Lawyers in Court at Dawn.

Taking the world as it is, and has been, dealing with relationship issues does sometimes work, and always, both parties are at fault, and can get stuck bouncing off each other.

Asperger's is not a perfect state of being, some issues need to be brought up.

We do not need Cassandra to show that relationships lead to depression. It happens, it can be worked through, sometimes.

As for his fan club, I recall I called him Dingo Breath, and said he went by Cassandra on the weekends, over the statments about autists causing depression. It does happen, but it is a universal.

I also said he was going into used cars, but found mechanics made real money, and Psych Majors would take any job to get out of telemarketing.

It did work out, and his Hearts and Minds Clinic is an Australian tourist attraction. Those I have spoken with say it worked for them. They got their head cleared up, oil changed, tires rotated, and moved forward.

My objections are about the concept of Pan DSMism, the equality of all mental states.

I also object to people electing themselves to speak for me.

A highly social child who networks themselves into seeking government support, is not my view of classic autism, it is self promotion, and when there is no content, it leads to attacks on those who are adults, educated, and have worked in the field for years.

This is the same attention getting as the recent, "Temple Grandin Hugs Pigs!"

In both cases we have uneducated people, who have added nothing, self promoting their King of The Rainmen snake oil cause.

The only thing they do is object to anyone doing anything.

Tony is wrong, so is Maxine, FAAAS, the DSM, Psychology, but that does not make Neurodiversity right, they are only showing them selves as mentally dirverse complainers.

Tony and Temple have written books, a groundbreaking of spreading knowledge, not all perfectly true, but much better than what was known before. They sold millions, which shows a demand for knowledge. Even Maxine wrote a book, somewhat self serving, but it did find readers.

Following Asperger and Kanner, the research papers are not great reading for the general public.

What we have is what someone did, a popular view of autism as not a mental illness, or retardation.

We are still not perfect, but better, and through more exploring of things like relationship issues, it will only get better.

I do discriminate, the choice is between those who have published the most information, mostly helpful, and those who want to add Autism to their Neurodiversity Movement. The Union of Tinfoil Hats and Imaginary Friends.

If they disagree with Maxine, let them write their own book on Autist relationships.

If they do not like her blaming autism, blaming her for blaming autism is a weak story.

It's not Proven Science, is a weak reply.

This petition is an 18 year old male complaining about what a woman of some years said about relationships with men. It is a book by a woman, for women, with a female point of view.

His point of view is not Proven Science, or even personal experance.

Women think different than men, that is Science, they veiw relationships different. Accepting that is needed to have a relationship.

This petition is the exact Aspie male hard headed blindness that causes relationship problems.

Maxine was right.

AS might be an issue in a relationship, as might money, hobbies, smoking, or any number of other things. It's not grounds for saying that involvement with an autistic adult causes a depressive disorder. It also doesn't justify the other claims the site makes - that autistics should be discriminated against in custody and divorce hearings, for example.

As far as personal freedom goes, Tony does have the personal freedom to associate with FAAAS, and we have the personal freedom to express our displeasure at the fact via a petition - that's how personal freedom works.

The petition doesn't demand that "adults renounce each other", "quit dealing with each other", or "cease holding opinions based on their years of life" - it's hard to refute this, as the statements are ridiculous enough that I have no idea where you came up with them...

Believe it is better to have someone such as Tony Attwood advising organisations like FAAAS and Aspia. You are always going to have organisations like this who need to blame someone or something for their problems in relationship. With an advisor like Tony tapering the ignorant and prejudice views expressed, this is a positve.

I think for myself, without needing talking points from "The Leadership".

The Self Elected Boy King of the Rainmen has issued a decree regarding his displeasure with the association between Tony Attwood and FAAAS, he is not amused. And you bring in the word ridiculous?

The demand is that Tony Attwood obey, and show his loyality to The King, by renouncing FAAAS.

The Boy King stands naked, his acts rediculous, his Manifesto a joke.

Tony Attwood has responded, he will continue his life as before.

This is the kind of behavior, unreal demands, that are the topic of FAAAS and Maxine.

When adults disagree, they work together to find where they do agree, and to define their differances.

I think this petition reflects badly on the autistic, makes them seem off point, childish, demanding, and out of it.

This petition and the web site it comes from are damaging the rights of the autistic adults they do not represent, do not have the support of, and who in fact consider them annoying bad childen who do not think.

Inventor demands that all of their web sites and publications carry a disclaimer,

"These views are not supported by adults."

Maybe if AFF et al were not busy making idiots of themselves, we would have our own effective self-advocacy. Instead of relying on Attwood and others to do it for us? Non?

Maybe they are are looking to absolve themselves of responsibility of their own lives, instead blaming the world around them? Really the best advocacy is to succeed in life. From a position we can seek change. As nothings we can do nothing.

Lol. Children being children I see.

Right, now you have just made anything valid point you may have had gotten entirely lost in stupid, outrageous rambling. Please do think before typing something out.

I find it amusing that a group of people complaining about other knowing whats best for them have now decided that they know best for everyone else.

Yes the problem is society. No, you don't seem to have any clue what to do about it.

I am quite happy for them to be supported, especially Autism Speaks. Mainly because when a genetic test comes along, they are going to end up looking rather silly, all they do will backfire rather badly. What most people forget is that there are an awful lot of undiagnosed Aspies out there leading very successful lifes, including many senior and leading political figures. Outing them would be the best advocacy, imo.


Surely rather than attacking those claiming to represent us, its far better to promote those who represent our interests? It makes Attwood et al look very isolated if we do that.

But really what we need is our own effective advocates, those who happen to be on the spectrum. It would be ideal if a few of us got involved in Psychological research as outed Aspies. Then we have access to all the conferences, can make our own speeches and can present our own views. In other words, we can take the same platform and show up the other side.