Racism

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That fits with your explanation - Europeans don't hate Asians, so Asians aren't racist back. But Europeans hate Muslims and Jews, so Muslims and Jews are racist back.

The church is officially separated from the state in Sweden since half a decade back, Sweden has no official state religion, and at least 70% of swedes identify as atheist or just "random spiritual" while 40% or so already left the protestantic former state church.

I think one thing that makes swedes dislike middle-easterners, muslims in particular, is that they actually are worse at adapting than for example asians or yugoslavs. Even if they might get good jobs (which few do) they still view swedish people as pigs and keep hateful views towards homosexuals as well as having sexist ideals which also makes them overrepresented in rape statistics. Middle-eastern men commonly believe a woman who dresses the way she wants is a whore and a free f**k. So they rape them.

That's a move in the right direction, but half a decade is not enough time to undo centuries of damage. There was ample time under the state religion regime for mutual racism to grow between the Christian Swedes, and the Muslims and Jews on the other hand. Even though the original cause is gone, it's going to take a lot of hard work on both sides to repair your society.

Compare that to the USA, which has never had a state religion, and has also never had much racism against Muslims and Jews (certainly very little compared to blacks). The founding fathers of the USA were certainly wise ahead of their time (and would have been even wiser if they'd separated race and state too).


But as you said, racism doesn't come from a vacuum. When a Muslim sees another Muslim raping a Swede, they think to themselves "that filthy arrogant racist Swede is finally getting what they deserve".

Of course, it's unfortunate that non racist Swedes might also be targeted. The fact that racism targets innocents as well is what makes it wrong. That's why you have to fight racism on both sides. If you blame everything on the Muslims, when they are just reacting to Swedish racism, you will never solve the problem.

There's a better solution, to do things the italian way and just cancel people's citizenship and deport them back to their home countries. Even Denmark passed a law making it possible to revoke citizenship of non-european immigrants.

Getting rid of the muslims will get rid of the problem. Deportation is the way to go.

That must seem like a great idea, if you are so short sighted as to be legally blind. Your planned ethnic cleansing would get Sweden kicked out of the EU for violating the European Convention on Human Rights. Sweden would also be shunned by every free country in the West, and would earn the undying enmity of the over one billion Muslims in the world, including two nuclear armed states.

Racism is like a pendulum - the harder you push, the harder it swings back. The only way to achieve equilibrium is to apply just enough force to keep the pendulum from hitting you, without pushing it into someone else. Racist ethnic cleansing will just make things worse for you. Reducing racism on both sides, on the other hand, will give you a peaceful and diverse society.

As someone who remembers clearly that Franklin Roosevelt turned away a shipload of Jewish refugees from Nazi Germany and that most universities had quotas against Jews during the 1930's I wouldn't say the USA was free of antisemitism. Jews were not hung from lamp posts for walking on the sidewalk as in Mississippi probably because they were not as easily identified as blacks but there was definitely a problem.

Of course there was some residual racism brought over from Europe, but it was never written into law. Compare that to Russia, where up until the Communist revolution, Russian law considered Jews racially guilty of killing Jesus and therefore treated them legally as second class citizens. Compare the peaceful civil rights movement of the USA with the bloody Russian revolution. And consider also the way that Russia treated the Muslim Chechens.

The separation of church and state in the USA has obviously yielded a far more ethical system.

You're saying nations should be bullied by those with atomic bombs into taking in immigrants?

Italy already started their ethnic cleansing. Look at how they are treating gypsys. Look at all the new anti-immigration laws they passed and look at how they have started to send refugees back to Africa and the middle east.

USA does not dictate terms on Europe. Your economy has failed and leading economists predict it will be even worse when the "stimulance packages" just inflate the bubble further. USA is already bound to be bought up by japanese, chinese and others as a cheap whore and being discarded between the rest of the world. Its' people inevitably turned into third world citizens. In 50 years americans will be "comfort ladies" to the japanese businessmen who by then will have bought up your entire country and will own every american business and franchise.

Europe however, is going in the right direction. Increased nationalism. Italy is currently the leading european nationalist country but Germany, Belgium, Denmark and now even Sweden are awakening as well.

Italy has always been more nationalistic than the average Euro country. Plus their consistent hatred of Islam since taking back Sicily helps in that regard. I think you overreact the demise of the US as we still have the largest economy a few times over 2nd place Japan and that is not on pace to change. Japan is also in reccession and has a major population problem(similar to the one in Europe with aging). This demographic shift is the main reason that Europe isn't likely to close their doors en masse. US doesnt have that problem but rather an extreme health insurance issue that is absolutely killing our economy(SS and medicaid). If anyone, China and India will come out ahead after this depression ends as they are still growing while everyone else shrinks.

The same guy who predicted the financial crisis says USA is killing itself with stimulance packages that only inflate the bubble again to make it burst anew and cause even more harm. Every super power comes to an end. USA won't be the only exception in history no matter how much people there wish for that to be the case. I think this is the beginning of the end for America. If it isn't the japanese who will buy the country and turn average americans into third world slaves, it's the chinese. The indian "phenomenon" is vastly overrated. It's still one of the countries in the world with the largest number of people living in extreme poverty, and IT-engineers alone won't create a superpower. China has the social structure of becoming a superpower, it's much better organized than India which is still chaos in many aspects. Still India does not dictate any terms on the rest of the world while China is a major player already.

The american economy is based on americans buying Gucci and Nintendo and on huge loans. It's only the world's biggest economy in theory, in reality it's a consumer economy built up and inflated by loans. The real winners are those who export Gucci to you. Even Sweden lends hundreds of millions to the US to make the american bubble go round and keep americans happy with three cars, enormous tv and a mountain of imported products from exporting countries like Italy and Japan, and even Sweden in fact. American economy is centered around borrowing money so you can keep domestic consumerism of imported products going. It's a suicidal system which has already started to collapse.

General Motors, your historical pride and joy, is being taken over by italians. So soon americans will be comfort ladies to italians, and the japanese are there wanting their share as well. They are planning to humiliate USA without exposing it as too obvious. They want to dominate your economy and take over traditional american banks, as revenge for Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Many japanese have planned this for decades, dreamed of the day when they could conquer America economically.

Last edited by Zoonic on 20 May 2009, 11:11 pm, edited 5 times in total.

I don't want to live in highly taxed welfare states with rampant gun control laws and a lack of free speech. I don't want to live in a nation where doctors are forced into accepting lower wages due to government controlled health care expenditures. I want to keep more of my paycheck thank you!

Sorry to interject, but this blatant myth that the USA is the only country where freedom of speach exists needs to be put to rest (and stabbed repeatedly untill it's barely more than a small pile of unidentifiable waste) and what, exactly, is wrong with gun control laws? I'm rather pleased that I live in a country where not every emotional idiot can buy a gun anywhere or anytime he likes.

WHy do you assume that the Japanese would want the US to become a nation of slaves? I dont get how America would become third world because of China and Japan. The third world slaves idea that you have would require ALL US infastructure to be destroyed, for TV and Computers to magically dissappear and for other nations to stop trading with the US. All of those scenarios are farfecthed. Personally I would prefer it if India, China, Japan, US, and the EU all had equal power rather than US being a lone superpower.
Oh and you really are underestimating India's global influence. India is a huge regional power(with giant influence in the Middle East and Asia) and on their way to a world power. India is lowering poverty and illiteracy(not as fast as China but fast nonetheless) and their free market(compared to China) will catapult them to become a major global player. China doesnt dictate terms for the world either and like India is only beginning to deisolate itself from its region of the world. I see India taking a model closer to South Korea's development(cheap labor and high science esp. medical) while CHina seems to be following Russia's model of development. But China's downfall is that they basically have NO friends in other countries that can help them. I cant think of another global power without close ties to many other countries...

Hans van Themsche had a gun.

Filip De Winter isn't allowed to say what he really thinks.

As far as Sweden goes, no we don't have freedom of speech here. I don't think Belgium has either to be honest. USA have slightly better freedom of speech but the country is fail in so many ways that it more than well makes up for the few positive aspects of freedom of speech.

Last edited by Zoonic on 20 May 2009, 11:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Nobody forced you to take in immigrants. You chose to, for the sake of cheap labor. However once you have naturalized citizens you cannot simply get rid of them on grounds of religion.

And I didn't mention bullying. However you have given up trying to justify racism against Muslims and Jews on moral grounds, and are instead arguing that "might equals right" - that since you can ethnically cleanse them you should be allowed to. I'm just pointing out that it's reckless to argue that way when you're not the only one with "might", or even particularly "mighty" at all.


That worked really well a century ago, didn't it? It got you ... a world war, revolutions, genocides, another world war, more revolutions, more genocides ... eventually peace, but a peace so full of guilt for what you had done, that instead of honest engagement of problems you tried to pave them over with fake antiracism, which is now turning back into racism.

And now you want to rinse and repeat?

The harder you kick away the pendulum, the harder it swings back at you.

Holocaust denial laws anyone? I for one believe you have the right to deny ANY historical event whatsoever.

If a maniac truly wanted a gun, he would obtain one from the black market. With gun control laws, criminals would have more of an incentive to attack others. If you have any understanding of crime, criminals are most likely to attack those who they perceive as being unable to defend themselves. How are we to defend ourselves from these maniacs if the government bars us from having fire arms?