Women and science
Tears. Seriously. One started crying because, as she said, "I thought I was done with math!" Another teared up because, as she put it, "I should know this stuff!" Both had supposedly earned their BSEEs through study and hard work. Neither of them passed the screening test.
Exactly. If they ace the test, they make it to the final screening. Even a high score means that they are under consideration; if not for the currently available position, then maybe another one later on.
Equal Employment Opportunity essentially comes down to whether or not the candidates understand what is expected of them, the depth and breadth of their knowledge, and their ability and willingness to do the job. We're not in business to provide jobs to every person who needs one. We're in business to make profit in the most economical, effective, and efficient means possible, and our staffing must reflect this. "Having a Heart" usually means that the women from HR deal with the woman candidates' tears and sniffles while us guys quietly leave the room.
Not every one ... but it happens. One in particular comes to mind - even the women from HR scolded her on the way she was dressed. I won't go into details, but she was dressed inappropriately for an air-conditioned room, and even less appropriately for a job interview.
I mean, if these women were more prepared to demonstrate their fashion sense than their knowledge of basic engineering principles, then how did they expect to keep an engineering job if they got one? By their looks?
I agree that you should not hire someone is not qualified. But you are deflecting.
I don't think I need to say anymore.
Okay ... I'm married, and I live in California - Southern California. Silicon Valley and Stanford are a few hundred miles north of here, while Hollywood is an hour's drive away and Disneyland is just down the road.
Even the Amateur Radio Operators around here are more interested in the latest box scores than in any advances in technology!
The fact that you are married doesn't mean anything.
Good.
Not at all. I'm being straight on with you. It is you who is trying to deflect.
Good.
Being married means a lot to my wife and I. Who are you that you can so blithely judge business practices and personal relationships - both of which are successful?
Wow. I have a hard enough time dealing with staff going through hard times and wanting to tell me all about it while I feel I have to maintain at least some semblance of a caring composure. Letting go of a long-term, but incompetent, employee who started crying on me was also quite frustrating. At least in those cases, they are people I already have some sort or repertoire with. I don't think I would have much compassion for someone crying during an interview, and especially not with those excuses. I would be too tempted to start lecturing them.
I suppose laboratories are easy to mistake for kitchens, and one might mistake a microscope for a sewing machine from a distance... (runs away before any women can slap me)
_________________
Opportunities multiply as they are seized. -Sun Tzu
Nature creates few men brave, industry and training makes many -Machiavelli
You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do
Of course not, they expected to sleep with either their supervisor, or one of the other engineers, or both, in order to get credit for other people's work.
I've seen this dynamic before, too.
My current job is 100% telecommuting, which means less dealing with the flirts and borderline-hookers, but there are other ways people try to cheat. In order to even be hired people have to prove a certain level of computer proficiency, but some get to the training class and suddenly they don't know what a "window" is . . . . a little investigating usually turns up the fact that they'd had someone else take the interview for them. Another person actually claimed we weren't allowed to fire her because she was scheduled to appear on the Dr. Drew show, and thus she felt free to harass and insult both her coworkers and her boss right in front of them, she committed fraud while still in the training class, etc, and then was shocked, SHOCKED, to find she wasn't so un-firable after all.
I'm a little curious to see if I could've passed that test of yours. It's been a few years since I studied electronics in college, but when I did I was tutoring several of my classmates. When I started taking those classes, there were 3 other women in the program who started at the same time. 2 dropped out when they found out there was math involved, and one dropped out when she couldn't play the "helpless female" card to get one of the guys to do her work for her. It seems my getting the highest grades in the class meant that card no longer worked for her?
Forget math and science - That card gets used as a multi-pass by so many women for so many circumstances it sickens me. A customer tried to use that (as well as the "I had no other choice" card) as her excuse for hiring our plumbing company to do work for her and then complain about it afterwards, and I lit into her on the phone when she called to complain. I've really begun to lose patience with such people, and I'm really not in the right job position to be doing so. I figure I'm going to get myself fired one of these days for telling some "helpless female" off.
The trick is to let go of 'feelings' and 'emotions' as evidence to support a claim. Once that is accomplished, all the is left are data.
Oh, and girls should stop being afraid of mathematics - it's not all that hard.
actually, I have seen just as much emotion in men doing science as I have seen with women.
And also females and males are equal in terms of math skills. Girls actually seem to do better than guys at math...
(There is a link in the above sentence for your viewing pleasure)
I don't believe this, you just said equal and then said "better".
By even saying that girls actually do better, you're saying it's possible than one sex is more equipped to understand the material.
I didn't look at the link but one study proves nothing, previous and current studies say women excel in other areas and are in fact usually more well rounded. I honestly believe that men have the advantage in this area, and have more of a specialized brain( much like the autistic brain, meaning that they suck or are simply average at a lot of other things)
Advantage, meaning the majority of men will be more skilled INHERENTLY in math than the majority of women and that OF COURSE there are women who will excel naturally in the field as well. When I say all of this I'm talking about math more so than science, lots of fields in science require many different ways of thinking.
Let's not underscore the things that women are traditionally good at, I am wired more like a man and don't excel in many things that the women around me do, I'm not well-rounded at all.
_________________
AD/HD BAP.
HDTV...
Whatever.
Last edited by EXPECIALLY on 21 Feb 2012, 10:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The electronics portion of the test is basic first- or second-year stuff ... E=IR ... XL=2PiFoL ... AC Phase angle ...
The troubleshooting portion is all block diagrams.
The design portion is basic logic gates and op amps.
Nothing that first- or second- year EE-track students couldn't handle ... if they earned their grades by studying and learning the material. An easy task for anyone with an Amateur Radio License (Tech - No Code), as well!
Well, scientifically speaking. The brains of men and women are usually designed to the point that men are usually logical thinkers and that is required to a point in science. While women tend to think with emotions more then logic using their right side of the brain. So it might have been part of the reason why people reached that conclusion. However, this isn't always the case, and people need to understand that. So no, I don't believe any field belongs to any gender in particular. You just have to have what it takes to do what you want to do. Please also study a lot before you enter college if you have not already. College goes at a fast pace unfortunately. I myself was too interested in certain subjects of science, so I got left behind in my studies.
_________________
Just came back on, for idk, nobody seems to agree with anything I say on here... just makes me feel even more alone.
This girls being bad at math thing is cultural.
In Korea, and other east Asian countries, girls and boys are equal in math aptitude. They dont have the folk belief that one gender is better than the other in math.
Though in America where there are gender differences among students in math even in America its not that simple.
If you look at the top ten percentile in math aptitude in any american coed public school you're going to find that that group is composed mostly of boys.
But if you look at the bottom ten percentile in math in the same school and look at who the dumbest in math are -guess who youll find.
Again it will be mostly boys. Males dominate a both extremes.
Men go to the extremes,and women cluster toward the mean.
The mean for both genders in math skill is about the same.
My guess is this: even if all cultural bias against females is removed, at the very top (95 th percentile or higher) of the population of mathematicians and theoretical physicists you will find a majority of males. I think there are definitely gender related factors in the way human brains work.
Only a guess.
ruveyn
But what I want to know is: Do you think science is a "Man's field?"
I have been told that science is a "man's field", and that I am a female.
Yes, I am a female, but I like science and am going into a field of science.
what is your opinion on the whole "man's field" thing?
It's a man's field because of convention. It is not by definition something FOR men, but was simply created by them.
Increasingly, more and more women learn a profession in the field of science and it's a good thing. Because many still believe it's not something women can/(should) do. ^^
Only a guess.
ruveyn
It's all about how you've been brought up. If you've been brought up in an environment where women should not care about science, but the way they look and how they should bring up their children, then they're not very likely to become scientists.
The belief that there are "gender related factors in the way human brains work" is completely illogical and not based on empirical truths. If you check women's brains and say, "Oh well, it is obvious their brains are not made for science", this is completely... you know... because it leaves the factor of "environment" completely out of the equation.
Here's something to get you thinking... Why are there so many female linguists out there, even though it is a highly scientific subject? Oh yes, the gender bias. ^^ It's "just about language" some people think.
There's an increase in scientific analyses about whether women's brains are "women's brains" by definition or just by, you know... because they have been made that way. I don't think you should underestimate the omnipresence of sexism in society.
Yes, there is a lot of males AT THE VERY TOP everywhere.
_________________
EXPANDED CIRCLE OF FIFTHS
"It's how they see things. It's a way of bringing class to an environment, and I say that pejoratively because, obviously, good music is good music however it's created, however it's motivated." - Thomas Newman
But what I want to know is: Do you think science is a "Man's field?"
I have been told that science is a "man's field", and that I am a female.
Yes, I am a female, but I like science and am going into a field of science.
what is your opinion on the whole "man's field" thing?
It's a man's field because of convention. It is not by definition something FOR men, but was simply created by them.
Increasingly, more and more women learn a profession in the field of science and it's a good thing. Because many still believe it's not something women can/(should) do. ^^
Only a guess.
ruveyn
It's all about how you've been brought up. If you've been brought up in an environment where women should not care about science, but the way they look and how they should bring up their children, then they're not very likely to become scientists.
The belief that there are "gender related factors in the way human brains work" is completely illogical and not based on empirical truths. If you check women's brains and say, "Oh well, it is obvious their brains are not made for science", this is completely... you know... because it leaves the factor of "environment" completely out of the equation.
Here's something to get you thinking... Why are there so many female linguists out there, even though it is a highly scientific subject? Oh yes, the gender bias. ^^ It's "just about language" some people think.
There's an increase in scientific analyses about whether women's brains are "women's brains" by definition or just by, you know... because they have been made that way. I don't think you should underestimate the omnipresence of sexism in society.
Yes, there is a lot of males AT THE VERY TOP everywhere.
To be fair he said theoretical physicists and mathematicians. But I agree that "science" consists of so many different things that women might actually be better in some ways and linguistics is definitely a left-brain endeavor.
They told me I had a gift for learning languages in 10th grade. At the same I had the numbers sense and spatial relations of a spider monkey
_________________
AD/HD BAP.
HDTV...
Whatever.
Similar Topics | |
---|---|
Intelligent design has no place in science classrooms. |
17 Mar 2024, 8:20 pm |
The Science Behind the "Spinach Mouth Phenomenon" |
09 Apr 2024, 9:30 pm |
Random Women |
13 May 2024, 3:48 pm |
Reasons women do not date us! |
15 Apr 2024, 4:05 pm |