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How we deal with racism and hate speech on Wrong Planet

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Teach51
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25 Aug 2020, 4:22 am

League_Girl wrote:
According to people of color, feelings don't matter in this when they call you out on racism. They also say we don't get to decide what is racist. Intentions don't matter, actions do they say.

Many people are focused on intention. I can decide to do something good and only to find out it was as*hole of me to do it. It doesn't matter what my intentions were. For example, I can tell a joke and someone gets hurt and upset. I can defend myself and tell them I was just joking and get defensive and act like a victim like the offended had just bullied me. Or I can toughen up and apologize for my joke and explain my intention and say I did not mean to make them feel bullied and singled out. Rather they accept it or not would be up to them and I can learn to not do jokes next time unless they know me well or how about I leave people out of my humor and refrain from any jokes and only do them with my family who know me well.


Yes I can get what you are saying I really can. Though if I had misunderstood something in your post above, and decided you are a racist, called you a racist, LG you are a racist (heaven forbid just giving an example) how would you feel? for the rest of your life it would be painfully embedded in your heart, Teach called you a racist, I don't want her to think that, it is not true. She said it in front of everyone, now the whole world can see it on the internet.
You are so hurt for the reason that you are the opposite of racist.


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The Grand Inquisitor
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25 Aug 2020, 4:26 am

alex wrote:
magz wrote:
Teach51 wrote:
Yes, but perhaps "I think you are racist" is better than "you are a racist" in the event that there has been a misunderstanding LG?

And "what you just said is racist" would be even better.

Right but I don’t think we can police people on the best way to say things especially when it comes to racism. Especially when the victim of the racism is already having to deal with the racism and now they’re going to also be told they’re not addressing it in an ideal way?

Fair, but what about in instances where someone is unreasonably labelled as a racist? Is that individual expected to put up with that?

Being labelled as a racist can be damaging to your reputation. How is an individual who has been unfairly labelled a racist meant to navigate this scenario?



magz
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25 Aug 2020, 4:29 am

League_Girl wrote:
Many people are focused on intention. I can decide to do something good and only to find out it was as*hole of me to do it.

How do you react to being called an as*hole?

It's totally okay to point out every wrong in other's behaviors. What some of us think should be discouraged is making it personal - "you're <something bad>" shouldn't be the right form of pointing it out.


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Last edited by magz on 25 Aug 2020, 4:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

alex
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25 Aug 2020, 4:29 am

Teach51 wrote:
alex wrote:
magz wrote:
Teach51 wrote:
Yes, but perhaps "I think you are racist" is better than "you are a racist" in the event that there has been a misunderstanding LG?

And "what you just said is racist" would be even better.

Right but I don’t think we can police people on the best way to say things especially when it comes to racism. Especially when the victim of the racism is already having to deal with the racism and now they’re going to also be told they’re not addressing it in an ideal way?



I disagree totally here Alex. Being falsely accused and misinterpreted is no lesser sin. Here lies your error imo.

The issue here is that you can’t really be falsely accused. If someone believes something you say is racist, they’re calling you racist based on their definition of racist not your definition. And either way you’re being accused of doing something racist (which means you’re racist) or being racist. The accusation is basically the same.


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Teach51
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25 Aug 2020, 4:31 am

The Grand Inquisitor wrote:
alex wrote:
magz wrote:
Teach51 wrote:
Yes, but perhaps "I think you are racist" is better than "you are a racist" in the event that there has been a misunderstanding LG?

And "what you just said is racist" would be even better.

Right but I don’t think we can police people on the best way to say things especially when it comes to racism. Especially when the victim of the racism is already having to deal with the racism and now they’re going to also be told they’re not addressing it in an ideal way?

Fair, but what about in instances where someone is unreasonably labelled as a racist? Is that individual expected to put up with that?

Being labelled as a racist can be damaging to your reputation. How is an individual who has been unfairly labelled a racist meant to navigate this scenario?



The answer to that is a definite no, they should certainly not put up with it, not for a moment. One sin should never justify another, two wrongs can never make a right.


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magz
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25 Aug 2020, 4:31 am

alex wrote:
The issue here is that you can’t really be falsely accused.

Excuse me?

Alex is racist. I don't need anything to prove it, I know it. <- What about this?


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25 Aug 2020, 4:34 am

First of all, I have been called a racist for saying "I am fine when people want to have kids with people of their own kind to keep their race going" and people responded with "yeesh" or "sexual attraction and only wanting to have kids with someone to keep your race going makes you a racist s**t head" so I asked "Okay so if a Native American wants to marry a Native American only to keep their heritage going, they are a racist" and they said "yes."

Okay, I wasn't hurt one bit if someone thought I was being a racist shite head.

BTW Native Americans do tend to want to marry other Natives and have kids with them because it's part of their culture. I lived in Montana and I knew several Natives who told me this. They thought only Natives should marry other Natives only. I disagree though because I believe people can marry whoever they want and have kids with whomever. However if a person wants to marry someone of the same race as them, that is their choice and I think they have no right to push it on others. But saying this about Natives might be a xenophobic comment I am making because of their culture.

And no, I do not mean they can marry whomever just as long as it's not with a white person.

But apparently saying "I am fine when people want to have kids with people of their own kind to keep their race going" is a doggy whistle white supremacists use and they actually mean "I am fine when people want to have kids with people of their own kind to keep their race going just as long as they do not marry any whites and have kids with whites."

And my Dad is Native and he married a white person (my mother) and had kids with her so not all Natives obviously. :wink:

So yes I have been called racist and I am not traumatized by it. I just disagreed with their opinion and moved on.


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25 Aug 2020, 4:36 am

magz wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
Many people are focused on intention. I can decide to do something good and only to find out it was as*hole of me to do it.

How do you react to being called an as*hole?

It's totally okay to point out every wrong in other's behaviors. What some of us think should be discouraged is making it personal - "you're <something bad>" shouldn't be the right form of pointing it out.



I've been called an as*hole and I have said to that "I am an as*hole for holding someone accountable for making a slanderous comment about ABDLs being pedophiles."


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Teach51
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25 Aug 2020, 4:37 am

magz wrote:
alex wrote:
The issue here is that you can’t really be falsely accused.

Excuse me?

Alex is racist. I don't need anything to prove it, I know it. <- What about this?


Alex that is an unacceptable, dangerous, misguided statement.
You are on dangerous ground.

I agree with magz, you are racist Alex, I reached that conclusion too, I don't need any proof either it is blatantly obvious for all. I am God and I am never wrong, proof is for lesser mortals.

Do you see Alex????????


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The Grand Inquisitor
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25 Aug 2020, 4:38 am

alex wrote:
Teach51 wrote:
alex wrote:
magz wrote:
Teach51 wrote:
Yes, but perhaps "I think you are racist" is better than "you are a racist" in the event that there has been a misunderstanding LG?

And "what you just said is racist" would be even better.

Right but I don’t think we can police people on the best way to say things especially when it comes to racism. Especially when the victim of the racism is already having to deal with the racism and now they’re going to also be told they’re not addressing it in an ideal way?



I disagree totally here Alex. Being falsely accused and misinterpreted is no lesser sin. Here lies your error imo.

The issue here is that you can’t really be falsely accused. If someone believes something you say is racist, they’re calling you racist based on their definition of racist not your definition. And either way you’re being accused of doing something racist (which means you’re racist) or being racist. The accusation is basically the same.

But then people can deliberately interpret a member's post in the most uncharitable way possible and disingenuously call that member a racist to character-assassinate them while the accused lacks the ability to enact any recourse.



Wolfram87
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25 Aug 2020, 4:39 am

Under my definition of Nazi, Alex is a Nazi. Why would you object to me describing you? Prove that you're not a Nazi, Alex.


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Teach51
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25 Aug 2020, 4:45 am

Wolfram87 wrote:
Under my definition of Nazi, Alex is a Nazi. Why would you object to me describing you? Prove that you're not a Nazi, Alex.



Alex you really are making things so much worse than when they were already critical. Many good people are leaving because this place is begin to resemble an inquisition, where an accusation is all that is necessary to destroy someones' good name and their feeling of safety here. You are legitimizing groundless persecution. I am profoundly shocked.


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alex
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25 Aug 2020, 4:56 am

Wolfram87 wrote:
Under my definition of Nazi, Alex is a Nazi. Why would you object to me describing you? Prove that you're not a Nazi, Alex.

Oh no I guess my reputation is forever ruined now.


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Wolfram87
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25 Aug 2020, 5:04 am

Quite possibly, though hardly due to anything I've said.


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Teach51
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25 Aug 2020, 5:08 am

Wolfram87 wrote:
Quite possibly, though hardly due to anything I've said.


Ruined, no doubt in my mind.


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smudge
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25 Aug 2020, 5:12 am

I'm glad you're not a judge, Alex.


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