How do I connect with my daughter?

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My four year old daughter was recently diagnosed with mild autism and a slight speech delay. I'm neurotypical and her father has Asperger's (found that out recently). We also have a 1 1/2 year old daughter who is extremely neurotypical. (I know it's early to tell, but she's already talking and she's extremely social/empathetic.)

We have a bunch of student loan debt and our daycare bills are around 2K/month. I'm the primary breadwinner and I go to graduate school full time. In short, I don't get much time with the kids and my husband watches them when he's not working. It's not an arrangement we like, but that's how things have to be for the next year or so.

I feel like I'm losing touch with my oldest daughter. She acts out violently with her younger sibling. She bites me until she draws blood. I'm extremely frustrated when she acts like this, but we don't have time to develop a "rapport" with each other. DH doesn't see anything particularly wrong with her aggression (he's a lot like her on some level) and doesn't always intervene between her and the baby when he should. (The baby is extremely anxious around her older sister and is starting to physically fight back.)

Is there any good way to develop a trusting relationship with my oldest daughter and also deal with the aggressive behavior? Right now we're putting her in time out when she's violent, but I don't know that she "gets" why she's in time out. I think she just ends up feeling more rejected and then bites/hits to get attention. Also, she's OCD about her room and will grab the baby by the neck if the baby tries to go into her room. I get frustrated and yell at her, further alienating her.

Any advice would be great. This just isn't going well.

Wow, you are really in a tight spot. I am so sorry.

IMO, your 4yo needs lots of attention and training, not time out. She is hurting inside and possibly jealous of her sister. You are correct that she probably doesn't get why she's in time out, so she feels you are the aggressor, perpetuating the hurt and anger.

I would keep your children as separated as possible, and get her as much help as possible. Your state (if you are in the US) probably has a free early intervention program.

The good news is that she is probably very intelligent and therefore will learn fast how to take her anger out on something safe other than her sister. We tried to train my son to hit the shower curtain, stomp in puddles, jump on tramp or do other things which don't damage anything. We put the ideas in a basket and pushed the basket toward him when he was fed up. He learned very quickly just to calm down interiorly. It took three days, though he was a lot older than your daughter. I don't know if that idea helps, but it shows you how much constant attention your daughter needs.

My son was helped most of all by changing his diet so that he did not feel so irritable.

I don't have much advice but your daughter (the autistic one) might just need some time to grow up, sometimes ASD makes us a few years behind where we should be in terms of emotional maturity, so your four year old may be more like a two year old in terms of social/emotional development.

My family situation was so similar to yours, except that I was the autistic child. My sister is two years younger than me and she is and was very neurotypical, extremely socially adroit and empathetic. My mum is NT but with some autistic traits like sensory issues. My dad is , in my mum's opinion an undiagnosed aspie and he at-least has A LOT of autistic traits. My dad insisted and still insists that there is nothing wrong with me and will get very upset with anyone who tries to convince him that he himself has autistic traits. He does not believe he does. I was aggressive toward my sister, my mum says that I must have been very jealous of her but I'm not sure if that's the reason or not. I don't remember how I felt toward her, I remember biting her. I also bit my mum, she still has scars from it. My mum was bread-winner until I was two years old because my dad couldn't keep a job, even though he has a PHD in philosophy and almost got a second one in computer science, he was on a tenure track at a university but screwed it up and then tried many other things but couldn't hold down other kinds of jobs either. Then when I was two years old my parents got divorced (I know that's different from your situation).

My mum and I were not as close when I was a kid , although I did know she was my mum and felt safe with her. Now we are very close and I have a lot of appreciation for all she's done for me over the years and think she has the patience of a saint for putting up with me. I am not ever physically aggressive with my mum as an adult though sometimes when we get in fights I do yell at her. She allows me to keep up my routines and eat the same things and watch a certain t.v show while I eat. When she tried to stop me from doing that we got in a lot of fights. We definitely have an emotional connection now and can relate to each other in some ways. She's the closest person to me. I wasn't able to connect in the same way as a child so I just needed time to grow up, which I'm still working on. As my mum said , I'm a very late bloomer.

I'll always have social problems and repetitive behaviours, most likely I won't be one of that tiny percentage who grow out of meeting the ASD criteria, as I'm almost 30 and still meet it, but I got A LOT better. Also, I had difficultly attending in school and my repetitive behaviours and interests got in the way so I did poorly in elementary school despite the fact that I should have done well in most subjects based on my IQ. By the end of high school I had acquired the motivation to succeed in school and started doing very well (I graduated with straight As). I'm now working on my Master's in Library Science, one course at a time.

Dealing with the aggression and connecting with her are two different problems. There are obviously overlaps between the two, of course.


On connecting:

(I am on the spectrum and have a 4 year old NT daughter--we have opposite problems! Maybe you can help me...)

What does she enjoy? The fastest way to the heart of someone on the spectrum is to spend time with them doing (or actively watching) the thing they are most passionate about. You don't have a lot of time, so don't expect the impossible. But, you probably could find 15 minutes when the younger child is either with your husband or asleep and engage in an activity of your daughter's choosing.



On aggression:

The first thing to know is that things won't change overnight. You'll have to be patient. You'll also need to be consistent--including mom and dad.

I can't tell you exactly how to get dad on board, but I can tell you it's important. Does he like it best when he's drawn in at the problem stage of an issue ("little Susie is biting, what she would do?") or does he prefer to just follow orders that someone else decides ("let's try this: every time little Susie bites, we will...")?

Why is she biting?

What need is she attempting to meet by biting?

Some say all behavior is communication. I don't 100% agree with that, but many things are so...Is whatever she is trying to communicate an acceptable thing to give her?

For instance, she bites because she's overloaded...could be solved--over time--by showing her a better way to handle being overloaded--such as going to a designated quiet place with calming tools.

Or..

For instance, she bites because she wants the thing little sister is holding. --you wouldn't simply want to solve that by giving her another way to communicate that she wants it, because she can't just have anything she wants. (Although that communication could be a step involved in the solution.) You'll have to systematically teach her how to navigate each of the situations that prompt her to bite.

When my son was young, I condensed teaching him to deal with one toy, multiple kid situations with this general script: "1) ask if you can have a turn [or join], 2) WAIT for a response, 3) honor the response, 4) settle your own negative emotions".


For time reference, it took us about 3 years to redirect our AS son's aggressive behavior, from the ages of 2-5. He wasn't a biter though. He hit and used aggressive language. It was really really hard on everyone involved. Now, looking back, I'm so happy that we had such a concentrated effort of giving him coping tools at such a young age. We wouldn't have put in that effort if he wasn't aggressive.



That was kind of long. Sorry. I hope something will be helpful.

My ASD child is my older one, as well, and it might help you to know that he honestly, truly, saw all those years when he was young and aggressive as years in which his sister could get away with anything, and him with nothing. He saw us as extremely unfair in every way, shape and form when it came to that, and it took me a long time to discover just how strongly he felt because, being a good kid at heart, he kept trying hard to play along and integrate that whole "she is younger and just doesn't understand" thing. But emotionally he couldn't really get there.

So assuming your daughter thinks similarly to my son, which may or may not be true, step one is to drop any idea that because she is older she should have more responsibility in the conflicts, and instead do your best to make it obvious that the family cares about her needs JUST as much.

If that means putting a baby gate up or getting a lock for her room door, then so be it. Have her help you brainstorm ideas for keeping the younger sibling out of her room. In her mind, this is a basic need, not something minor at all, and showing understanding and respect for that will go along way towards her feeling that her needs matter.

You will also probably need to have some heart to hearts about the actions that prompt her aggression. While you do need to keep emphasizing that aggression is NOT an appropriate response, do NOT downplay it when she complains about how noisy the baby is, how the baby gets in her space, or that the baby "hit her first." In her eyes, all these transgressions are very real, and whether or not she understands that babies get more leeway because of their maturity, she still needs someone to see the injustice done to HER. Talk about other ways these situations should be handled, and have her practice that with you every time she fails.

We had zero tolerance with our son on physical aggression and I don't know if that was right or wrong ... it wasn't so much about the punishment, to me, as sending a consistent message that this issue was really, really REALLY important to us. But one thing is for sure: you and your husband MUST be on the same page, or your daughter will just get confused. If he can't enforce consistent time outs, then there is little point in you trying to. Instead, maybe calm her down after each incident and then ask her to model how she SHOULD have handled it.

I did also tell my son to please let ME handle it when his sister was in his space or being "annoying." With that, one of the things I had to promise my son is to come running when he asked me to, instead of taking my time because "I wish they weren't fighting again and maybe they will figure it out." If I am going to tell them to let me handle it when the younger sister is bothering him, then I'd better be there to handle it.

Anyway, it does get tough, and I can't remember all the little ways we worked on it, but this was a process that took YEARS. Just, be sure you really are being fair to her and recognizing that controlling these impulses is really difficult.

Oh! I while I agree that time out might not be the most useful thing, it's way better than doing nothing. If you plan to stop, I wouldn't drop it until you have other tools in place.

First, I'd like to thank everyone for all the helpful advice. You all have given me a lot to think about.

daydreamer84: Your family's situation is nearly identical to ours and your perspective is very insightful. My husband had a lot of trouble keeping a job and he currently works at a position he's very overqualified for. We nearly divorced when my youngest was first born (huge communication issues). Luckily his diagnosis really allowed us to make a new go of things. It's not perfect, but, then, most relationships aren't.

I like the idea of redirection for her violent behavior. She has a strongly developed sense of fairness, she just doesn't understand that the baby doesn't know when to leave her things alone. Also, she probably feels like the baby can do no wrong, so to speak. My husband is under the impression that she needs to be desensitized to having the baby in her room. Bad freaking idea, but that's what he thinks. I thought he might be right for awhile, but I'm pretty convinced Eva just needs her own space, end of story.

Once again, lots to think about. I very much appreciate the input from individuals on the spectrum. I often feel like it's inevitable that she will end up hating me no matter what I do because everything I do sets her off. She and her dad generally have an understanding (unless he's ignoring her but that's another story about his particular issues).

I never used time out for my AS daughter. I do for my other child occasionally. I guess for two reasons. I have ASD and feel abandoned and confused when people act strangely, and worried my child might feel the same, and maybe more important is that my AS child's tendency to isolate just made it seem like a bad idea.

I think you definitely want to avoid time out if isolating is a positive experience for your child, and this isn't uncommon for people with ASD.

I didn't go through what you are, but my AS daughter used to push at my face and I hated it. I think now that she wasn't understanding I was upset and it hurt me, instead was seeing me behave in a strange (to her) way that did not make sense. So she did not stop. And the solution to a lot of behavior that upset me was related to sensory integration. I'm not sure how it's related, but for my child, it definitely was. Perhaps it was her only way to communicate her sense of being dysregulated. Anyway, we used an occupational therapist, which I recommend if you can get help from someone who is skilled at sensory integration. If not, maybe it would be worth reading about. I put a swing in the house, and a large box with rice, and I think we used some putty and soft toys she could fidget with.

I do think discipline is important, and not saying there shouldn't be some kind of consequence. It's just, I would feel very upset by the biting, and my child drawing blood, it would make me feel scared and helpless and out of control, and I guess I'm not clear the 4 year old can control herself yet, and of course punishment is not going to work unless she can....it all sounds rather overwhelming, and first things first, I would want to feel safe, she is only a little girl, she simply can't be allowed to bite, in my opinion, and for me the act of doing something so unacceptable to me would mean I step in to stop it, because she can't. I don't know whether that made sense, I hope so.

Oh, and your husband may be brilliant and all, but he's an idiot about putting the girls together. Stand your ground on this, they do not need to be unsupervised together all night, for their safety and the sake of everyone's sleep. Sorry, I've never said that before. I hope not coming on too strong.

I forgot to say that I think you will feel connected to your daughter again when you are no longer having to worry about your and your younger child getting hurt even in minor ways. I'm sorry, that was the point of what I wrote. That in addition to the advice others gave, I think things will go much better if you can help her be more regulated, it helped us tremendously. And it's just much easier to be empathic and connected to someone you like and much easier to like someone who treats you well.

When my 4yr is having a hard time calming down we send him to his room with his ipod, which he loves, to calm down. Not as a punishment or timeout, but simply to let him calm down on his own. After a while he started going there on his own to help himself. It has made a difference for him and seems to be helping him calm down even when he doesn't go to his room. I think just knowing he has the option if he needs it helps. Maybe there is a special place and tool for your daughter where she could go that is just hers and she has control over.

I agree with the others about bonding, participate in what she likes. If your daughter is into music, maybe you can make up a silly song that just the two of you share or some made up game. Nothing helps feeling connected as something just the two of you do.

I'm going to be blunt as a baseball bat here. OP, my apologies in advance for any unintentionally harsh words.

Consider this: evolution made children before age 3 look extremely cute. This is necessary so that adults around them will be compelled to care for them and protect them; basically, ensure their survival. After age 3, humans become marginally self-sufficient (from an evolutionary standpoint), making the cuteness unnecessary, which causes it to fade out over time. In fact, limerance (a.k.a., the "honeymoon phase" of a sexual relationship) is programmed to last about 3 years. This way, two people can stay sexually attracted to each other long enough to raise a baby to marginal self-sufficiency.

So, your oldest daughter is at the tail end of her cute years. Your youngest, on other hand, is in the prime of her cute years. And let's face it: there's absolutely nothing a 4-year-old kid, who's just about to outgrow her cuteness, can do to push back against a maternal instinct that's tens of millions years old. (Pre-human mammals had cute babies too, for the same reason.) Sadly, your daughter doesn't realize what she's up against and how powerless she is. She knows she's up against something, but doesn't know how strong the competition is. She's convinced that if she tries hard enough, she can get you to see her as the cutest child in the household (all subconsciously). But that's biologically impossible! Basically, she's set up to fail right form the start, through no fault of her own. Hence, the meltdowns and violent behavior.

So what can you do? Unfortunately, not much. The instinct to devote attention to a cute baby has been around long before mammals evolved, let alone humans. And it's way more powerful than "a kid screaming for attention". But you are human! And an adult to boot. You have the intelligence and willpower to override your base instinct, and give attention to your less-cute oldest daughter. The extra 15 minutes of wait time (to be fed, for example) will make minimal difference to your youngest; children that age don't have a strong sense of time yet. Absolutely nobody ever died from waiting an additional 15 minutes, not even Lucy, the first humanoid. But those extra 15 minutes of singing songs, reading a book, or just eating a snack together will mean the world to your oldest. The real trick is to use your human intelligence to manually override your base instinct that just screams "MUST... CARE... FOR... THE... CUTE... KID!! !", give your undivided attention to your oldest daughter, and supress the urge to run off to tend to your youngest's slightest whimper.

I agree with the advice screen name gave regarding figuring out the functions of the biting. The next step is to find an alternative way to meet that same need, and then teach her how to do that instead. For example, if she's biting to get attention, show her that whenever she draws you a picture, you get really excited, parade it around the house and hang it on the fridge. She'll probably do more drawing and less biting then.

So first thing's first, when does she bite?

Based on your description of things, I imagine you're very stressed out and overworked. In my experience, when parents get that way, they often make two mistakes (these may or may not apply to you):
1 - ignore the kids unless there is a problem. I get it, you're stressed, you're exhausted, you need a break. But the kids might not get that, and if the only way they can get your attention is by making problems, then they may do that. I find it's helpful to think of it like exercise. You'll either pay now or pay later. They're getting the attention out of you. And you can either give it to them through play and positive interest, or you can give it to them shouting. The problem is, you have to front-load that positive stuff. You can't put it off, or else they'll start pulling that negative stuff out of you.

2 - take out stress on the kids. I'm not implying abuse here, it's more subtle things, like reminding your kid to put away the dishes, but with an irritated tone. There may be reprimands that are a bit too short, or annoyed, or angry, and go beyond what the situation calls for. These things can instigate problems when there weren't any, and they can escalate problems unnecessarily. It is important to try to control your voice and tone, even though you're exhausted. Try to tap in your husband for this stuff, tell him you need a break, and then take a short one. In fact taking a break when things aren't going well may help with problem behaviors that are driven by attention - Mommy needs a time-out, lets you calm down, and it shows them that they don't get more attention for acting out, they get less. You still will need to give them the attention later, however...once things are settled, and they're being good.

So those are hunches of two potential things that may be going on. But you know your situation better than I do. Try to figure out the function of the aggression. If it is attention, then the things I suggested may help. If it's something else, then there may be other useful solutions.

A common acronym for figuring out functions of behaviors is MEATS (Medical, Escape, Attention, Tangible, Sensory). Good luck, and keep doing all the good work. It sounds like a very tough situation!

I also have an Aspie older daughter and a NT younger daughter. While my older never got violent she did get jealous of her younger sister so we did 2 things that I think really helped.

1. Scheduled special Mommy/Daughter days were we would do whatever she wanted for an outing, just the two of us. Sometimes it was as simple as go to the park or fly kites. Sometimes it was a trip to the zoo. We would schedule 1 per month so she new that she would have my undivided attention at that time.

2. Put all of her 'stuff' into her room and made it off limits to the younger child at all times. This eliminated the arguments about breaking toys, touching my stuff or getting in my face. It provided a place for her to retreat with a door that would close (but not lock) and keep her sister out.

I don't know if either one of these would be an option, but you I thought I would offer.

By the way - you are not a bad mother.