Bullying incident

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Update - Got an apology letter from the girls in the mailbox today. Probably parents made them write it but gonna let this go for now...

If the parents made them write it out, then the parents have done their job. They obviously talked to them too. What more do you want? Should the parents come and turn them in at the police station or maybe should they just send them to school with black eyes and bruises for a few weeks? I mean what exactly is it you want? I understand that you want for this not to have happened in the first place but nobody can make that happen! It also sounds like they were more likely messing with you and your wife than your child. From what I've read, it's sidewalks chalk and rudeness to the parents, it's not hunting the kid down and tormenting him. There is a huge difference.

So, exactly, what do you want from this incident? The kids to be publically shamed and their families run out of town? Them to be physically hurt? To sue the parents and make a stand that you can't do something like this? This is not bullying! This is stupid, kid rudeness, thinking it's funny cause they say something to adults.

ETA: Not every kid that's an as*hole before puberty hits is out to ruin your kids life! Not every kid who offends you means it the way you take it. Maybe you should learn some of that too.

I said I'm letting it go.

By "for now" I mean unless it happens again!

Am I allowed to give my honest feedback?

Of course. This is a public forum, after all.

Do you think calling the cops would be overreacting?

I asked because my opinion on these things is generally not well-received by everyone. Sometimes people really only want self-confirming feedback, and when that is the case, then I don't really see a purpose in rattling cages and upsetting people.

However, in a case like this, I think it can be helpful and step back and look at things from another perspective.

I find it concerning when an 8-year-old child's behavior of writing "Don't let your son eat grass" (which I find difficult to label as bullying) in chalk (which you can sweep or wash away with ease) escalates to talks of calling law enforcement, social service involvement, and bad parenting. I am also concerned when minor infractions like this are deemed to be evidence of "bullying." I don't think these things lead to the greater good, and I see the potential for a lot of harm.

I think we need to keep in mind that these are 8 year old children. NT or not, 8 year-olds are not mature in their social skills and still have a lot of developing to do. To deem them bullies or their parents "bad" over something of this nature really seems, to me, to be jumping the gun and doing way more harm than good. It was a mistake. People are allowed. It doesn't make them evil intentioned.

I have an 8 year old daughter. Granted, she is not NT, but her friends are, and I have to tell you that if they were to write "Don't let your son eat grass" on someone's sidewalk in chalk, I do not believe it would be part of some overarching desire to cause anyone mental torment or anguish. They may not even necessarily recognize it as "wrong." (It really is nothing more than a comment based on an observation of a child doing something that is not only unusual, but that the girls might have actually deemed as harmful. Note that they followed the comment with "I like your tire" as if to soften the blow of the initial negative feedback.) And my daughter's friends have "good" parents. Kids do silly and sometimes stupid things. Not with the evil intentions that the word "bullying" tends to imply.

I also have an issue with today's tendency to deem anything that someone doesn't like to be "bullying." I think when we tell our kids they have been bullied over every possible negative incident, we set them up to see themselves as victims. I think when people see themselves as a victim from an early age, it sets the stage for issues in adolescence and adulthood that can range from mild to rather severe. Therefore, I am very careful in the words I choose with my kids.

When my son was teased for bringing a stuffed animal to school in 5th grade, I did not tell him the kids doing it were bullies or that he was being bullied. He made a social error and kids were teasing him for it. It ended the next day when he did not bring in the stuffed animal and everyone forgot it and moved on. Did he like the behavior? No. Did it make him feel bad? Yes. Was he targeted? No...he just happened to do something odd that just happened to be noticed by someone else. Was it bullying? No. Did I report it to the school? No. Why would I? It's a part of life as a human being. Sometimes you make a mistake and there will often be someone there who will see it and make fun of you for it. No need to blow it up. Just move on. He eventually became friends with this boy, who gave him a whole bunch of toys he had grown out of because he thought my son would still like him. I am glad I did not turn it in to something it didn't need to be.

Fast forward to 6th grade when a different kid was taunting my son on the playground to purposely make him start crying so that he could mock and ridicule him and egg other children on to do the same. Repeatedly. Day after day, week after week. Did my son like this behavior? No. Was it bullying? Yes. This kid was intentionally seeking my son out and targeting him with the purpose to cause him torment and humiliation. He was preying on my son. Did I label this bullying and this kid a bully? Yes. Did I report it to the school? Yes. This kind of torment should not be part of being a human being and an 11 year old boy is definitely old enough to know that what he is doing is cruel and wrong.

I think when we label any behavior we don't like as "bullying" we do two things: 1) we make our kids victims, when they needn't be. 2) we desensitize people to the issue of bullying and how severe it really is. Bullying is not simple isolated acts of teasing. It is pervasive and insidious. An individual is intentionally singled out and targeted to exploit a power differential and to cause torment or humiliation to someone else.

I mean, honestly, would it really be worth traumatizing two little girls to have the police drive up to their homes? To do what? Arrest them? Can you honestly imagine? I cannot. I would bawl my head off like a little baby if that happened to any of my daughter's friends. They would be so traumatized. And to have Social Services called? OMGosh. I cannot imagine. To have your entire family life combed through with a fine tooth comb because your kid did something silly.

Regarding them saying "bring in the mail" repeatedly...I used to do stupid crap like that all the time when I was little. I don't know why I did it and I am certain it never occurred to me that it would hurt the other person's feelings (I was overly sensitive to hurting people's feelings or seeing them hurt), but I did things like that with my friends and thought it was funny. We were silly little girls. Doing silly little girl things. My cousin and I used to point at people and pretend to speak in a foreign language. We thought it was hilarious. But we certainly didn't think we were hurting anyone by doing it.

So, to answer your question, yes, I think calling the cops would be overreacting. I cannot tell you what to do, of course, but I can offer you what I think I would do, because it is similar to things I have done in the past. I would ask the parents if I could talk with the girls (with the parents present, of course). I would, in a very friendly manner, thank them for letting me know that my son was eating grass. Then I would say that next time it would be even better if they just knocked on the door and told me. Then I would explain that sometimes my kid eats things that most people don't eat. It is a condition called pica. It isn't contagious and although it might look a little strange, it really isn't harmful. Then I would tell that my son has a hard time making friends and ask if they would like to help, even by doing something as simply as waving and saying hello to him with a smile on their face. Then I would ask if maybe they would teach my son how to draw on the sidewalk with chalk.

Please try to remember these are little kids. Not felons. They need to be taught things and treated with respect. Most kids that age can be won over fairly easily, I have found. Especially little girls.

Now, if they were 12 or older and writing things in paint...the cops should be called. But that is delinquent behavior. What you are describing is much more innocent than that, I suspect.

Sorry if I have ruffled feathers, and I mean no disrespect.

Hi, thanks for your input.

Actually they wrote "lick your tire" not "like your tire," that was a typo that I didn't even catch (and can't edit now.)

I don't think there necessarily has to be a bad intention for something to be bullying. When I was a kid I had a lot of experiences like you describe with your son and it felt like bullying to me. Not just once or twice, it happened a lot. Maybe you were never on the receiving end of this sort of thing?

No. I was bullied. And teased.

I have a long nose and was called Pinnochio and other stupid things that kids do. Teased because I had homemade clothes. Stuff like that. I didn't like it, and it bothered and upset me, but it was not traumatizing.

But in middle school (back then called Jr. High), one of the kids used to chew up jolly ranchers and hold them in his mouth until it was full of spit and spit them on me every day at recess. It was humiliating and everyone would laugh. In high school a group of kids used to leave harassing notes in my locker about how ugly I was, how weird I was, how no one liked me. They would draw ugly looking caricatures and hang them on my locker with mean things written all over them. People would walk by and laugh. Those things were traumatizing. To know that people were going out of their way to hurt me and entice other people to join in...very different than teasing me because my nose was long.

Did they mean they saw your son lick the tire swing do you think?

A few years ago, we were involved in a parking dispute with the neighbors from hell. Day after day, their then 3-yr-old would yell "you are an idiot" while I worked in the front yard. I usually ignored this, because it was obvious that he was merely echoing what the parents were saying about me. One evening, he yelled "you are such a dork", when my then 5-yr-old was also with me. I faced him and said, "well, it is a pity that your parents aren't raising you with better manners and more respect for other people."

I think one or both of his parents heard it, because that little boy never yelled anything out to me ever again. 6 months later, they moved out of the neighborhood. Problem solved. That is why I wonder if it is really the parents that the OP should be wary of. The kids are probably mere echoes.

It did cross my mind that the reason the mom panicked when she saw the writing because it was something she'd said herself. I saw her today going out to get the paper I think and she totally ignored me.

I apologize for snapping at you like I did. I'm just going through so much hell right now. Didn't mean to take it out on you, it was wrong of me, and I apologize for it.

If you're comfortable with someone adding their 2 cents at this point: it's important to remember that neurotypical kids go through developmental stages, too - and one normal stage of development involves an inability to take perspective and a fear of differences. I understand what this felt like on the receiving end, but on the giving end it probably was done without any understanding of how it would affect you.

I'm glad you told the parents, and that the parents made the kids write an apology letter. Hopefully, the parents have explained to their children that all children are different but no matter how the differences look, all children are still people and deserve the same treatment.

You might want to try making a gift of some books about autism to the family to help these parents help their children understand. I'd agree with the poster who suggested that these girls could probably become a real asset to you in the neighborhood - they just need a little help in perspective-taking, and an act of kindness in response to their apology letter on your part might go a long way in that direction.

Most of the book recommendations I could make are for kids on the Aspie end of the spectrum (the one I know where the boy is an Autie, "Rules," I don't particularly like the way the boy is characterized.) Can anybody recommend a good book for helping kids this age understand an Autie?

Thanks for sharing your points about the case of other children who are fond of bullying kids that are suffering from illness. Yes, bullying has been all around these days. We may notice that this kind of harassment among young people is one of the common problems by everyone in school since it becomes destructive and threatening. I think , parents and school has to deal with it, we must help the kids to be aware of bullying and give them guidance of what works positively to make it stop. Children who have special needs must be protected from this kind because it might even triger their sickness or will put them at risk.