Can't decide-- Fight for mainstream, or Homeschool

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The school is putting pressure on me to move my kid (2nd grad) over the segregated full-day SPED class again. He's had a rocky time so far this year, and in the past couple of weeks things have really gone downhill. His perfectionism has increased again, as has his low tolerance for frustration. The latter has gotten really bad and he's having trouble in areas that weren't such a big deal before. I think he's feeling a lot of pressure (even just on stuff like them wanting him to Accept Their Help) and he's in a emotional nosedive. He's refusing to do almost all of his work at school and he's not participating in most of the classroom activities. He's going over to the RSP room for most of the morning every day (he doesn't do his work in there either, but I think they feel he's less likely to bother other people in there with his noncompliance.) It's not that he's violent or even all that noisy (although he has been crying a lot this year). But when he doesn't want to do his work, he still tries to get the attention of the teacher or the other kids. So then he gets kicked out and goes over to RSP with a bunch of worksheets, which he refuses to do.

So... anyway, their thinking is that he should go over to the Special Day Class because they have "other things" they can do to accommodate him. (When I said, "like what?" they didn't really have any specifics for me.) I have looked at the Day Classroom and to me it seems pretty obvious that it's the one-size-fits-all class in the district for kids who don't function in the mainstream classrooms. So this means kids of varying levels & type of disability, with some aides working one-on-one to do worksheets, and a SPED teacher giving a lesson on the board to small groups at a time. I can't see how this room would be of ANY benefit to my son, except that maybe they'd be more likely to "back off" on him a bit more (because of lowered expectations as far as output goes) and so maybe he'd be less stressed out. But the price would be any kind of meaningful education for him.

I've been reading the thread about the article "Please Segregate my Special Needs Kid" and the problem here is exactly what is being discussed over there-- how there is really no appropriate place for some spectrum kids. That you wind up having to choose which way you are going to shortchange them. The district thinks this is acceptable (I actually do think they are well-meaning, so they are just trying to find a placement for him where he doesn't seem so outwardly miserable for most of the day). But putting him in the special day class is not going to actually address the real problems. It will just sweep them under the rug.

I'm edging closer to seriously thinking about homeschooling, but I'm still pretty scared about it. I don't know if it would be the right thing for him. I would also be forcing him to do it, as he keeps vehemently maintaining that he wants things to continue as they are (he also finally has a friend at school, which is great.)

The RSP teacher fully admits to me that she KNOWS that it's not a matter of him not being ABLE to do the work... it's that he is choosing NOT to... he is opting out. But he's also melting down a lot more because of minor frustrations, and that has nothing to do with the academics. They really just have no idea how to help him. I think they feel a very pressing need to scrounge up some kind of "success" for him, even at the expense of his access to a real education. They really really really can't handle seeing a kid sit there and not work on his work.

So... I'm just so torn on this. It's really hard for me, too, to have this daily stress of hearing all of their complaints about his failure to do his work. But I also know that they can't FORCE him to go over to the Special Class. They will keep pressuring me to agree to it, but I can just keep saying, "no". It's hard for me to be in a battle like this, but I can handle it I guess. The real question is, what would be best for my son? And I just don't know. It's not like he's begging me not to go to school. He's cheerful enough when I take him, and cheerful again when I pick him up, and cheerful whenever I bump into him on campus, when I'm up there to pick up his little brother. You wouldn't know he was so "miserable" if you didn't actually see the evidence in the classroom. It's like he's this little spirited pony and they are trying to break him, and he is resisting. You want me to do this boring work? NO I WILL NOT. YOU CAN'T MAKE ME.

I suspect that when he's a bit older he will find other incentives to do the work. (Maybe). But for now, I don't think they are going to convince him. And so they are going to keep pressuring him and bugging him and making him miserable. (Back in my school days, when my brother was very much the same as my son, he would just get Zeroes on all his daily work, and then get an A+ on the exam, and wind up with a C average, which everyone was comfortable with, and so nobody rocked the boat. This is not an option in today's public school. HE MUST SUCCEED.)

Does anyone think there is any value to keep pushing to have him continue on in mainstream, even though he's opting out of everything? (He *is* actually learning everything-- he listens and absorbs and processes it all-- he just won't PROVE it to them by filling out worksheets.) Or is it time to start researching homeschooling in California? I am so torn. I've been pretty miserable about it. It's a big responsibility, making this kind of decision.

I'm pretty sure I have posted about this same question before, but things feel more intense now. Like maybe I feel I need to just make a decision one way or the other so I can move forward with confidence that I'm doing the right thing (yeah like that's going to happen.) I'm willing to fight for what HE wants (to stay in school) but I can't convince him to try just a *little* bit harder to make that actually work... if he would just throw them a bone (do the damn worksheets) almost all of this pressure would vanish. He'd still have the perfectionism issues and the frustration problems, but at least they'd see WORK happening and they'd feel that they were satisfying THEIR end of the bargain, and stop panicking around him all the time. I think they'd feel much happier about finding ways to accommodate him if it seemed like he was really trying to meet them halfway. But he's still too immature to apply that kind of reasoning to the MOMENT, when he's faced with some extremely tedious task. So they just feel like failures, and want to move onto Plan B, even if they know that Plan B is no better than Plan A.

Is your son able to tell you why he won't do the worksheets? Is it because he finds them completely useless and ridiculous? If that is the reason, I don't think anyone in any room is going to get him to do them.

I homeschool my kids. Neither are on the spectrum that I know of (it is myself I suspect), though my son had some more AS characteristics when younger. Regardless, homeschooling has allowed them to grow up at their own pace.

Homeschooling also allows for choosing curriculum appropriate for the child. Some kids love worksheets. Others despise them. Schooling itself should not be one-size-fits-all. Tedious filling in the blanks just to prove that you know something is torture, IMO. If you homeschool, you and your son could work together to decide the best way for him to show what he has learned.

To make your decision, you need to ask yourself what is the purpose of schooling? To instill a love of learning? To master academic skills? To have friends or develop social skills? Etc. Then you need to ask if the school environment is helping or hindering, and if homeschooling will be better suited for achieving those goals.

Say no to sped.
Homeschool is an option if you are available to do it and you can find build a curriculum around his interests.
Another option is to continue as things are and see if his behavior improves naturally with age, but this probably won't work anytime soon.
Another option is to toughen up on him and find a way to make him do some work, because he does have to learn that a person often needs to do things that they find tedious just to meet other people's demands.
I think it is primarily your son's mental state that has change.
Otherwise, he might end up as one of these smart kids who doesn't do work and doesn't get close to his potential.

Are you sure they are trying to "scrounge up success or do think they have other motives? I ask b/c our district was quite forthright about non-compliance being about being a bad example to other kids who might ask/ask about why they can't opt out of things.

If they really are concerned about him feeling successful and you don't want him in SPED just tell them you think the stigma of SPED would make him feel less successful, especially socially, and see where they go with it.

(General comment: Please do not flame me, parents of kids in SPED, or adults who once were in SPED, my son was in SPED in pre-k, and I am not justifying a stigma for SPED. I am suggesting this as a strategy to suss out intent.)

I don't know what to suggest about keeping him in or taking him out. Homeschooling and tailoring things for him does not guarantee that work gets done. Some topics are just boring. Sometimes I get more out of him work-wise, sometimes not, because he knows any hard and fast schedule is arbitrary. If you are thinking you want to try it, either try a regularly scheduled school break (and hope he will let you home school him, when he knows he is entitled to being off from school) or take him out for a personal day, and give it a go. (You will have to give him notice, and then I don't know if you would be (in trouble since it is wouldn't be a true sick day or anything)

My main concern though would be that he does not want to be pulled out, and he has a friend. If you take him out and he does not want it, I don't know how you could expect compliance. It also may be harder to keep up the friendship if they are not in school together.

I think understanding his reasons for not doing his work is essential to resolving the problem. You mentioned "perfectionism". Is it that when he does the work, it's just exhausting attempting to make it perfect, which makes him associate the pain of exhaustion (with it comes boredom) with the work? If that's the case, it sounds like an anxiety issue and you should consult with a psychiatrist. I know that many people are uncomfortable with psychiatric medications, but I can personally say it's been a godsend for me. When I was about your son's age I started getting religious and I would repeat the same one line prayers in my head for hours on end just out of anxiety. Getting the right meds helped me calm down. This isn't to say there's anything wrong with religion.

The fact that he's made a friend at school shows that there's social development you risk harming by pulling him out and homeschooling him.

If he's not doing the work because it bores him, then I unreservedly and unabashedly suggest bribery. Bribe, bribe, and bribe some more. In my house, everything revolves around the addition or removal of various treats. If DS doesn't do his schoolwork, there's no video games. If he doesn't pick up his room, no video games (most threats/promises are about video games for us).
What does your son really really like, and is there any way that thing could be made available to him at school when he's completed a certain quantity of work?

I dont agree with people saying no to special Ed. If the picture I'm getting of your child being stubborn is accurate, you do need to consider his wishes and comfort. Does he prefer the special Ed classroom isn't the only consideration but it is important as he needs to be part of making things work.

But can you help take it away from the power struggle and tension thing? He needs to do something in a regular class rather than look disruptive but if he is learning the material without doing the worksheets they want, what he does COULD be individualized, at least for now, as a stepwise moving toward doing things their way.

I don't think most 2nd graders with ASD have the ability to conform and be like everyone else even to get something they really want. So bribing is good, but I think there has to be some give about what he does. If he were willing to discuss it with you and the teachers, would be adhere to a commitment? I'm thinking while other children did worksheets about a story, perhaps he'd agree to drawing a picture about it or writing another ending, during math time maybe he would agree to work on a ken ken or similar puzzle, some sort of activity that relates to the subject, but is specific to him. If he would talk about and adhere to a plan to do something relevant that isn't what he is right now unwilling to do, that maybe is a better path than agonizing about bad options none of which quite suit him.

I have a couple suggestions:

1. Read the book Lost at School, and consider whether there is any chance that the school would be willing to try the proactive problem solving method described in it. Basically the idea is to really understand why he is refusing the worksheets and the causes of any other behavior issues, and then to brainstorm WITH him to find solutions for each individual issue.

2. California has a lot of hybrid homeschools, where kids can go to school 2-4 days a week and be home the other days. There might be one that is a good fit in your area that would give him some of the benefits of both homeschool and mainstream. Maybe you could involve him in visiting the ones available in your area and picking which one to go to.

Thanks everyone for helping me think through this. I have been really depressed for a couple of weeks because the pressure from school has been ramping up again (daily reports aka complaints, piles of unfinished work sent home, etc) and I just don't deal with it well. And then I have to go through this whole process of remembering that just because THEY are panicking and acting like everything is DOOM, doesn't mean that everything is awful and the world is ending. And that in fact there is a whole lot of education going on (both academically and socially) and they are just frustrated because he won't do what they want him to do. So then I have to work really hard to re-bend my thinking & my emotional response to cut away all the B.S. and remind myself of what I know to be true, and what I believe in, and what I understand about my son (and what they DON'T understand about him), etc.

Can they actually DO anything to force the outcome they seem to want (to put him in the full-time SPED room), if I don't agree to it? I mean, I know in the "legal rights" packet they hand out at every IEP meeting there is some scary stuff in there about overriding the parents' wishes if they feel the parents are actually abusing the kid by denying him what he needs and they can try to go to court to do that. But I have to imagine that the communication and "team" would have to experience a pretty tremendous breakdown for something like that to occur. I *do* feel that they truly have his interests at heart-- that they really just want to see him happy and "give him the tools he needs to succeed" (I'm so sick of that phrase), only they have no idea HOW to do that.

Some answers to questions:

1. Is he able to explain why he won't do the work? yes and no. he usually just says it's "boring" or he won't say anything at all-- he will just groan as though he's in pain and then I know that he's not going to do anything for at least an hour. (When he does this at home, at least I know to back off at that point... but at school they can't do that, or won't. They just keep hounding him to DO IT or to do something else, which (the pressure) usually just makes it worse.) I don't know if he REALLY thinks it's boring, or if he's just using a word that's been fed to him as a possible answer. He's very good at coming up with "reasons" for things that he knows will sound reasonable, but may not actually be expressive of what's really going on (HE may not even know.) My suspicion is that it's a combination of--- a) it really is boring, tedious, busy-work. b) he already knows how to do it, so he thinks the entire process is ludicrous. c) he probably does associate some possibility of perfectionism pain with it, so why go there when that might happen? d) there haven't been any dire consequences for opting out. (at home we can do stuff, when it's about homework, like no video games, no toys, take his stuff away, etc... but at school they can't do much to him... nothing is valuable enough to him there that it will override his hatred of worksheets.)

2. what is my attitude about the purpose of schooling? frankly i think i could teach him better myself, at home. he could learn more, and faster, and "go deep" on his areas of interest. but he DOES get exposure to stuff at school that i probably wouldn't bother with at home.... and the social stuff is really where I see a lot of growth that would be hard for me to replace. he actually does really well, socially.... i mean, yes, he is the weird kid in his class. but he's not ostracized (yet), and he is unafraid-- he loves the social times at school, like lunch and recess, and his aide says he does really well and she purposely hangs back during those times so that she doesn't interfere with his natural growing abilities or "contaminate" his opportunities. at recess he (a 2nd grader) apparently has a little pack of 1st-graders who follow him around because they aren't put off by his tyrannical need to direct their play-- they enjoy it. heh heh. he is very creative and comes up with imaginative scenarios for them to play out on the playground. I have a feeling that it's only a matter of time before this innocent fun wears off with age & social constraints, so I really like to see him having these good social experiences while he can. and the fact that he has made 1 really reliable friend (a 3rd grader) just proves that he CAN and that there are peers out there for him who SEEK his company and for whom his "weirdness" is either a non-issue, or even a good thing. they have finally moved into the "play date" level of friendship and if it weren't for all the stupid homework, the two of them would probably be playing together after school every day. So yeah.... long answer, but this aspect is really important to me and I would really hesitate to take that away from him. I mean, I know that they could still have play-dates, but it wouldn't be the same. And I'd cut him off from other "organic" chances like that.

3. test-run homeschooling.... i actually sort of did this over the summer. what i learned was that he was just as stubborn and unwilling to do work at home, as he is at school. even when i tried to make it fun for him. he would usually sulk for at least an hour before finally getting started. and that was on a "good" day. some days he'd sulk for 3 hours. like, lying on his carpet picking at lint instead of doing 10 minutes of work to earn unlimited computer time. yeah. so i'm not sure how well it would go... probably a torture-battle every day. (which is what they're experiencing at school, which is why they're so damn frustrated.)

4. yes, bribery works... for homework. but only because i can use IMMEDIATE rewards, like candy. he will work for candy. because it's right in the moment. no delay. instant gratification. whereas he will, in general, NOT suffer the pain of tedious work for a relatively short amount of time, in order to earn a very big chunk of "fun" later on. Later on is too far away to change his feelings in the moment. so this is a real problem at school. there is nothing they can bribe him with that is immediate enough. or at least they haven't come up with anything.

5. what are their motives? i'm not sure. last year i was convinced it was about money. that they wanted to get rid of him because it would make all their frustration go away (at least with one kid) and they could get rid of the full-time one-on-one aide (who isn't helping much anyway). but now i'm not sure. his teacher this year is *fantastic*, and the new RSP teacher is really open to ideas and her heart seems to be in the right place. but at the end of the day, their job is to make sure he supplies them with measurable evidence of education happening... and he's not doing that, so I think he makes them feel like they are failing. he is also extremely good at burning people out. i don't really think they are afraid of him setting a bad example if he's accommodated. i think at this point they would be willing to do whatever's necessary to get him to work. they feel as though they have tried everything and they are out of ideas.

-sigh-

i think i've sort of found my answer, in reading through the responses, and writing this out.... that I need to keep trying at school, so that he can keep experiencing those social opportunities, and the enjoyment he's having now to be part of a school community... he doesn't feel defective (yet). he's pretty confident. he has a friend. these are good things. he does his homework, as long as I push him to do it. he gets very high scores on his tests, when he actually deigns to do them. maybe i need to figure out a better way for ME to ignore all the arm-waving and wringing-of-hands going on behind-the-scenes.

can they "fail" him out of 2nd grade if he doesn't do any classwork but gets 100% on the tests he actually takes? i need to find this out. i don't understand how 21st-century public school works, as far as that kind of thing goes.

btw, thank you for the book suggestion. i will definitely check that out.

Does his writing look ok? Any suspicion for any dysgraphia? LDs can be ascribed to emotional issues so easily in bright kids.

They probably could fail him if the classwork is weighted high enough to counteract the tests. I don't know that they would because that would mean another year they would have to " put up" with him.

I don't think they should be sending piles of classwork home, either. Do they send all of it? If having to it as homework is not an incentive to do it in class, then they should not send so much home. I understand they need grades so they have to send some of it home, but I bet some of it is busywork, anyway.

I wonder if they could give him immediate bribes at school for it. If he has a one to one, she can be in charge of doling out whatever is agreed upon. Failing that, I wonder if you could get an accommodation for classwork. He may be having trouble focusing at school and the best he can do is do tests there b/c he knows tests are important and he can rally all his energy and focus for those.

If he is getting great grades on tests, I don't see their logic of having to scrounge up success. That is success right there. If he is proving mastery on tests, the rest is about compliance, really, isn't it? (I am not saying getting him to do work is not important, just that the issue is different than not having metrics for his learning)

If you were in PA, I would say their motive is three-fold:

1) It's the sweet, soft-hearted, super-peppy types who go into early-elementary education, and they just can't stand to see a kid suffering, unhappy, non-compliant, not grinning from ear to ear. They can't cope. And yes, they make me want to puke.

2) They're scared spitless that, if one child is "allowed" to buck the curriculum, they all will. And that plays right into...

3) They're scared totally f*****g s**tless for their standardized test scores, source of ratings and almighty funding. If he's mainstreamed, his scores count (and, no matter how well he does on classroom tests, they're not going to be confident of that performance unless he's a good little round peg). If he's in SPED, his scores are exempt.

I don't know how much CA is like PA. Probably a lot, as both are run by progressive bureaucrats who seem to have decided that common sense is for those who lack their fine level of expertise.

Personally, I'd probably put him in the SPED class and start busting ass on my homeschool plan, with my rationale being that he can't learn if he's that stressed out by the environment. But you have evidence that he IS learning, and he LIKES school, so... I don't know.

I guess there's always threats/facts: "CAN you do the stupid worksheets?? OK. If you CAN do the stupid worksheets, then you MUST do the stupid worksheets. Because it upsets your teacher if you don't. f you don't do them at school, then they send them home. Do you like spending your evenings doing stupid worksheets?? THEN DO THEM AT SCHOOL. If you don't do the stupid worksheets, I won't be able to send you to school any more. Do you want to go to school?? Then DO THE STUPID WORKSHEETS."

This is the approach my folks would have taken with me, and it would have worked. With me. In 1980-something. Your mileage, with your child, here and now, will undoubtedly vary.

^^^^^
This

We have this conversation. I think eventually it will be effective. Right now he "gets" it and agrees, but he just doesn't have the maturity to transfer that over in the moment, and especially when he's got lots of other appealing options, like acting goofy on purpose to distract the other kids from THEIR work. That's a lot more fun that doing the worksheet. Or, he could argue at length and in great detail with his aide, the teacher, or whomever, about WHY he isn't doing the work. That's also way more interesting. ANYTHING is more interesting.

He was pretty cute yesterday when I was talking to him about all this stuff. He was like, "what if I build a hovercraft? Then will they know how smart i am?" Uh... no. They KNOW you are smart. But they need you to PROVE it by showing that you have learned what THEY are teaching. Oh. Bummer.

Yes I wonder about the test-scores thing. That much factor into it to some degree, at least for the administrators, if not the actual teachers. The teachers seem more like the "go-getter" types BuyerBeware mentioned... young, enthusiastic, "pained" by seeing him not "succeeding". I have actually had frank talks with them about "what is the actual goal? To educate him? Or to have him prove that he is being educated?" Because they all KNOW he is, in fact, learning. When he actually does his work it's obvious that he is absorbing all of the information. But yeah, he is a totally unreliable test-taker and they can't have that.
I have wondered if I could simply find a way to opt him out of the STAR testing and if that would take a lot of the pressure and panic off of their shoulders. I know many parents around the country are doing that-- not because of special needs, but because they are sick and tired of the culture of testing that is so pervasive now. But I have no idea how hard it is to actually do that. For all I know, maybe if I suggested it, they'd have the forms ready for me in seconds. This school has VERY high test scores and they do not hide how proud they are of that. But jeez there is NO WAY I am sending him to SPED just to protect their test scores. That's so offensive, on many levels. Of course if I accused them of that they would be HORRIFIED that I could ever think that....

By the way, that is one thing I'm actually confused about-- his scores count if he is mainstreamed, but don't if he's SPED? But what amount of SPED means his scores don't count? Right now he is mainstreamed, but he does received SPED services and has an IEP. At what point does a kid become "full" SPED to the point that they are scored differently etc? I have always made it clear to them that I will NOT agree to a placement for him that would change him over to eventually getting a certificate instead of a diploma, but how that all actually happens has always been pretty murky to me and none of them have been forthcoming about clearing that up to me, other than to assure me that it can't happen without me knowing it. Which doesn't comfort me all that much because they have a way of chipping away at him gradually.

I think you can opt of out standardized state testing through the IEP, without actually putting the child in a SPED class. IEP means special needs, even when mainstreamed. I don't know your state's rules, but in my state they are only allowed so many exempt kids without that hurting them, also. It keeps schools from opting out all the kids who they think might fail, to generate a misleadingly good score. If that is so where you live, they want to save those opt-out spots for kids they know will fail. Then they torture the rest.