Having A Hard Time With Religion Because Of People

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My entire life I've had a hard time with my religion, Christianity, because the people involved were typically very ignorant and egotistic. I'm wondering if I'm the only one. I love being able to feel close to the Divine, but whenever I try, I'm usually rejected or mistreated by the people involved, and then I start having trouble being able to be close with Divinity. I'm not able to worship, pray, or read my bible because every time I do it conjures up angry feelings and memories of those people. Am I the only one?

you're young....you have lots of time to sort things out

why worry about religion? believe in god or don't believe in god or simply feel that you're not sure either way.
religion will only get in your way. being part of a religion will not help you in your quest. being spiritual has nothing to do with belonging to a religious group. nothing wrong with going your own way. seems to me religions were invented for the purpose of allowing a group of humans feel they are 'better' than everyone else.

seems silly to me.

hang in there.

In my youth I wondered about the whole god and jesus and religion thing. I decided to sit down and read the bible from front to back. In doing so I found the bible to be completely lacking for any kind of book that a loving god would give to his people. I also analyzed the people in the church I attended and found them to not only not follow the bible, but to say some complete lies about groups of people and even science.

So I decided that religions must be wrong and that a god, any god, is not very plausible.

Of course this was a whole lot more complicated than I am making it out to be.

I would disagree with you there steampowerdev.

Tell me exactly what your idea of a loving God is?

I found the bible, in particular the new testiment to be very insightful. A good deal of the Bible deals with the history of the people involved, but it's overall approach to God and spirituality I found very enlightened.

As for your problems with the "church", blackmetal, A lot of people claim to be Christians but aren't. As Jesus once said, you will know the tree by it's fruit: a good tree will produce good fruit, and a bad tree will produce bad fruit. or something to that extent: Im paraphrasing here. The point is don't let people who only think that they're Christians get in your way of being a real Christian.

If you can manage those memories, reading the Bible cover-to-cover would be a good step to take, or at least the new testament. A lot of stuff people think is in the Bible isn't actually in there, or doesn't mean what they thought it meant once put into context.

as for the people who are belittling you, I'm curious as to what is was they where doing. would you mind sharing some examples of their actions? I could probably find some scripture or something you could quote them or just for yourself, you know, if that kind of thing would help.

I personally believe that God would make contact with his creations at some point, and thus one religion is likely to be correct. I did some research on some other religions, mostly monotheistic ones, since only one God is needed to create existence (and most polytheistic religions have only one creator anyway). If you're really struggling, that might help you to put things into perspective. But I, personally, favor Christianity. I could share my reasons if you'd like.

I pray you find whatever answers you're seeking.

I'm going to warn you, im a skeptic, and I might come across as... abrasive. I apologize in advance if I happen to offend anyone.

“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?”

Epicurus – Greek philosopher, BC 341-270



Indeed, like Malachi 2:3. It is incredibly deep, insightful and thought provoking how the all wise and powerful god of the bible smears poo on people.

"Behold, I will rebuke your seed, and will spread dung upon your faces, even the dung of your feasts; and ye shall be taken away with it."

and before anyone calls me rude, or mean, or immature for that comment, bare in mind, it really *is* in the bible.


I would like to state for the record, that god isnt necessary to explain existence. especially lacking an understanding for where that god came from. if god can create him or her self, why cant the universe? if god is and always was, why couldn't the universe have always been?

just my two cents.

If God solved all the world's problems, we could not solve them
If we could not be tested by confronting evil, we would be good by default
if we were good by default, it would have little meaning
if there is no meaning in life, why live it?

in other words, not fixing all the world's problems doesn't make God malevolent: because A: if he did, our lives would be relatively boring and meaningless and B: this is not the world that matters.

So God punishes people for their sins. I for one appreciate that he has a sense of humor about it. I'm especially fond of his comments on idols.

God is what created existence. if existence has always been, that is to say you believe existence itself is God i.e. pantheism. what's more, we've found nothing to indicate that the universe could create itself.

OP, what matters the other people? should i dislike america because ive encountered many a-holes? should i avoid all blacks because some have stolen and killed? should i avoid....you get the picture.

read the bible, if you dont agree with it. thats fine. if god is real, and god is all knowing, then logically he should know what you're going through, right? follow the divine as you so wish. if you need the bible for guidance, use it as such. its what scripture is for. religion caters to the rituals, yet you dont need the rituals to be close to god. think about it: would praying 5 times a day get you to know god better? no, of course not. if it isnt genuine, then it doesnt matter how many times you pray, read scripture, etc.

dont feel compelled to do anything. just follow what feels right. if its meant for you to be a christian, if what you want is to be a christian, then work on it for yourself. not for others. there are many christians who are great people, and there are countless others who are mindless idiots that disregard their religion through their actions, yet present themselves as vanguards for the cause. its not unique to christianity.

a yes, malachi. i am a bit light headed at the moment...but, remind me, is malachi in the new testament? the whole "its in the bible" is a cop out. it happens with every scripture: "yeah but its in the____". its just sardonic and doesnt contribute to the debate.

your first part is a philosophical debate. which just leads to a circular argument either way. i mean, it works for the buddhists, but christians are found to be stupid if they take the "it just is" approach.

im not against the first position, i somewhat agree with it. but what does it have to do with this thread?

@tensu, lets make the assumtion that god exists and god is all powerful. You seem to already have accepted this assumption. The words 'boring' or 'exciting' only have any meaning because god lets them have meaning. He is all powerful, theres no reason for suffering, or evil to exist. There is no reason god cant will life to be exciting at all times. If God were really all powerful life could have infinite purpose without evil. What meaning is there in life anyways? In the end we are so insignificant to the universe that if the entire planet disappeared and all who lived on it perished it would be hardly of any consequence to the universe. As the late Carl Sagan has put it, we are a dot, on a dot, on a dot... on a dot.

if you take nothing else from this, I would like you to ponder your statement:

Then what created God? and what makes existence itself any different, using whatever logic you applied to the existence of god? It may work for you, but to me you are just taking a very complex problem and 'solving' it by adding an even more complex problem.

@oscuria
As for my second bit, it is in the old testament. It doesnt so much respond to the OP and is directed more towards the notion of how enlightening or inspriing the bible has been to Tensu. It is perhaps a cop out to say its in the bible and leave it at that. But it gives one pause and leads one to question if things are so set in stone as they have been told with passages as flawed, and might I add barbaric and very human like, as malachi 2:3.

I suppose I have veered off topic, from the original post, and for that I apologize and promise not to do again.

@blackmetal83092
As far as issues with religion, I can completely understand on several levels. I find people to act very illogical about a great deal of things regarding religion and belief, and I often have similar feelings regarding people of faiths that involve a lot of miracle tales and seemingly folklore, and just how inflexible they are to reason that they denounce some of the most basic scientific principles. Usually I find great difficulty with fundamentalists the most.

That old chestnut? It completely thrusts anthropomorphic definitions onto the behavior of an entity that is by definition beyond comprehension.

One of the things that always amazes me is that humans measure good and evil almost entirely within the context of their own self interests, then expect God to comply. I suppose if humans were the pinnacle of God's creation (some believe that) it might be a reasonable expectation. But is a darn big universe. A deity concerned with good and evil has much more to consider than a just us bunch of whiny b*****s on our tiny little planet.

Just a crazy theory,
it is perhaps because good and evil aren't real and humans defined it. which is why everything we have deemed good or evil seems to fall in line with going with or against society and thus with or against self preservation and/or the emotions of people. in our selfishness we invented good and evil based on if it benefits us as a whole, and thus as individuals, or not. In a sense, you said it, that we invented evil, not me. And still bear in mind, we are speaking on an omnipotent god, how complex the universe is or how much said omnipotent being has to deal with, its of no consequence to such a being. And being all wise makes it all the less likely to me at least that the being is benevolent or really cares at all what happens to us, or possibly even exists. What about omnipotent and all knowing yet somehow benevolent to all creations is difficult for people to grasp? I think I am going to need to retire from this thread, as I've already failed on my promise to not deviate from the main topic.

I've had that problem with a lot of people like that and sometimes a problem with the church leadership. The important thing to remember is that you are not putting your faith in a church, you are putting your faith in Christ Himself. It took me a long time to find a good church that accepted me with no strings attached, but it was worth it!

The Apikoros and the Stoics believed that the Gods did their thing and had little or nothing to do with what humans do. Humans and Gods are disjoint.

ruveyn

My idea of a loving god is one that would not give you the choice to believe in a loving god, or to go to hell. A god that doesn't send his own son/himself/part of himself to go and die for a mistake that a mythical person had done years before my ancestors were born.

My idea of a loving god is one that actually helps people, not threaten them with punishment for simply not believing in a "loving" god.

Not at all.


The things some people do even make me feel ill inside.


That is called "resentment", and we either learn to forgive or we just make everything worse for everyone.

Lower your expectations and your disappointment will lessen.

As was said in the movie -The Wizard of Oz- : Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

ruveyn

Steampowerdev: I think your concept of what hell is and why people end up there might be a little skewed. I believe Hell is not so a much a punishment as it is a choice: People separate themselves from God not knowing what they are doing, and this state of separation is hell. People are not so much damned to hell as they chose to go there.

Also, the notion of original sin appears nowhere in the bible, and seems to be constructed from a couple of comments made by paul contrasting Jesus to Adam. (I personally wonder if Adam was less a person and more a metaphor for early humans myself.) Original sin seems to actually be at odds with core Judeo-Christian beliefs, which say multiple times that the sins of the father will NOT be passed down to the son. While God does punish whole families, it is often because the whole family went along with said sin or did nothing about it. I believe Jesus died for our sins, not Adam's.

TOGG13: I don't know if you're reading this, but I'd love to continue our discussion on another thread. but just for the record, you seem to misunderstand what I meant when I said God is what created existence. something has to be the original source. we call the original source God. God doesn't need a source because God is by definition the original source. understand?

the only way this thread has any hope of staying on topic is if the OP posts again.