The "Jewish" or "Bible" Value of pi

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1. I'm pretty sure your claim that God only speaks through the Bible goes directly against the Bible, because, you know, he speaks to people in the Bible without using a Bible. Logic.
2. Again, this isn't a declaration of the value of Pi, it's the measurement of a basin. Using it to claim that it's the standard of Pi is just idiocy. First, the basin might not even be circular, but secondly, if you account for the width of the basin, it's a ring not a mathematical circle, the result is much more accurate. Third, it's a physical measurement, not a mathematical law. They might have even just rounded to 10s.
3. So? This isn't the global positioning system, it's a freaking basin.

Guys, make some reasonable assumptions. You can't just assume against all odds that they didn't know jack sh*t about circles. How on earth did they make these objects if they had their measures wrong?

The Bible NEVER says that Pi = 3. That's just people ignoring one important property being taken into account and interpreting the verse accordingly.

The Bible doesn't even say that Pi = 3.14 or so on.

Don't you hate the Bible?

I reject the Bible as God's Word and hate many things said in it, but that's irrelevant.

The description of the big round container logically implies pi is approximately 3.14. You get the fractional part by taking the thickness of the wall of the container to be a hand breadth or about 4 inches. The overall think is thirty units around and ten units across which gives a very crude estimate of pi.

Unfortunately some yokels take it literally. If I recall some Southern State passed a law -legally defining" pi to be 3. Idiots.

ruveyn

Exactly. Let's suppose Jehovah God gave his prophets something as complex as Phi. Would any of them be able to understand it? Remember, many of them were simple men. Jehovah God condescends himself down to humans and uses visual aids to communicate his thoughts and ideas in ways that are understandable.

For example,

"Do YOU people not know? Do YOU not hear? Has it not been told to YOU from the outset? Have YOU not applied understanding from the foundations of the earth? There is One who is dwelling above the circle of the earth, the dwellers in which are as grasshoppers, the One who is stretching out the heavens just as a fine gauze, " . . . "Raise YOUR eyes high up and see. Who has created these things? It is the One who is bringing forth the army of them even by number, all of whom he calls even by name" (Isaiah 40:22, 26)

Jehovah employed memorable visual aids to teach vital lessons. One night he brought Abraham outdoors and said: “Look up, please, to the heavens and count the stars, if you are possibly able to count them." (Genesis 15:5) Abraham looked up and saw a sky full of stars. Jehovah added, ". . . So your offspring will become.”

On another occasion, Jehovah sent Jeremiah to the house of a potter and had him enter the potter’s workshop to watch the man shape clay. What a memorable lesson in the Creator’s authority over humans! (Jer. 18:1-6)

And how could Jonah ever forget the lesson in mercy that Jehovah taught him by means of the bottle-gourd plant? (Jonah 4:6-11)

When it came time to build Noah's ark and the Ark of the Covenant Jehovah gave clear directions.

Jehovah could have told his prophets about pi, phi, trigonometry and other complex mathematical concepts and had all this information written in his word, but he didn't. That's not the way Jehovah communicates with us. But because pi, phi and other mathematics are not mentioned in the bible does not mean they are not present in creation. The bible calls these Jehovah's "invisible [qualities]" and they are clearly seen from the beginning of creation. (Romans 1:20)

@kxmode

Using your same reasoning, since Jehovah was telling primitive man about how he was created, and wanted to communicate to us at our level so we would have some understanding even if not as perfect as Jehovah's understanding, perhaps Jehovah used the story of molding a clay figurine and blowing His breath onto it instead of boggling our minds with the ideas of DNA, natural selection, and evolution. Hmmm?


So to paraphrase what you said:

Albert Einstein best summed it up when he said, "god does not play with dice". Evolution is based on random chance. There too much evidence in the bible, on this planet and in the universe to show that "chance" cannot be the engine of creation. EVERYTHING had a design behind it.

kxmode, don't say you agree with me and then spout nonsense.

@kxmode

How many times do you need to be told: evolution is NOT based on random chance. Natural selection is NOT random! Selection is the opposite of being random!

Also even if it were based on random chance (but it isn't), how do you account for the fact that there are multiple lines of evidence from every branch of science that all point to the same reality that evolution happens? The fossil record is full of transitional forms evolving from one "kind" to another, and even if we had never found any fossils at all the genetic evidence alone is so strong that once we discovered DNA and started comparing the DNA of different species we would have figured out evolution happens.

Two words, the strongest evidence of all for evolution (but by no means the only evidence):
NESTED HIERARCHIES

Either different species such as chimps and humans share a common ancestor based on the patterns of nested hierarchies of many different types of genetic data, OR Jehovah made it LOOK like it happened when it really didn't. Is Jehovah a trickster? How do you explain nested hierarchies of data in any way that makes sense other than their coming from common ancestry?

Your church is either ignorant of the actual evidence for evolution, or is LYING to you.

Quoting scriptures to back up my comments isn't nonsense. WrongPlanet's PPR population may be most vocal with atheists, evolutionists, and the like but there are plenty who believe in God and agree with bible's viewpoint on matters. Isn't the point of PPR to be inclusive of all ideas? Dismissing my posts as "spouting nonsense" seems very exclusive.

You are incorrect on two counts:

1) You are taking Einstein's famous quote completely out of context "god does not play with dice" was aimed it Schrödinger with whom he disagreed about quantum mechanics. Regarding this, Einstein was proved wrong and Schrödinger correct.

2) Evolution does not rely on chance as TheBicyclingGuitarist and others have tried to explain to you on many occasions. Why do you keep repeating the same inaccurate information, time and time again. I can't believe it is due to stupidity, but I've got to ask why? It is like you keep saying 2 + 2 = 5 no matter how many times everyone tells you that you are incorrect, so why keep on doing it? Are you forbidden from learning the facts about evolution by your church?

It is as though someone has fed you a heap of propaganda and all you are capable of doing is regurgitating it without giving any thought to it. Are you incapable of independent thought? Are you just here to be a mouthpiece for the JW and try to get converts? You certainly don't engage in debate, you just repeat the same inaccurate stuff time and time again. You appear to have learned nothing from the people here; the vast majority of whom know considerably more about evolution than you do.

And please don't reply to this post with a biblical verse... Try to use your brain.

It's Religion, Tal, wherein believing in something simple to understand (and inherently wrong) is preferred to knowing of something that is difficult to understand (and inherently correct).

For instance, some religious people would rather believe that the Sun orbits the Earth (which is wrong) than try to understand orbital mechanics; some would also believe that the Earth is farther from the Sun in Winter, and closer in Summer, than try to understand that the Earth is tilted rather than perfectly aligned; and some would rather believe that an invisible Sky-Daddy created everything 6000 years ago (just like their little book says) than try to understand such complex subjects as quantum coalescence (the "Big Bang"), expansion of the universe, accretion, stellar fusion, planetary formation, evolution, and human knowledge of physical principles.

It's also easier for some to be "religious" than for them to be "smart".

Religion and Science are like two genre of music. They were never meant to be mixed, never to belittle each other, and never to mind that there were contradictions between them. You don't say how does this blues song rate on the best rock song chart because this rock song is sure a good blues song do you? That is how stupid it sounds when you mix the two. Do you think God cares if he lied to a bunch of cavemen in the desert? He probably created the world the way it is, and thought wow dna will sure amaze them!

Religion is based on unswerving belief in improvable assumptions - it is the political expression of faith.

Science is based on testing assumptions and questioning tautological belief - it is the active expression of curiosity.

Of course they're incompatible; one assumes that the Truth is an unknowable, invisible Sky-Daddy, while the other is messy, self-correcting, iconoclastic, and just plain fun!