Divided We Fall

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WOULD REPUBLICANS LET TRUMP GET AWAY WITH MURDER? New polling suggest the president’s theory of power is backed by the numbers

The loyalty/fanaticism of Republican voters and the problems it presents to any republican willing to go against Trump is well documented. Former South Carolina governor Mark Sanford is the latest “moderate” to pay with his political career.

What has been less discussed until recently is that Dems face same issues from thier base. 71 percent of Democrates favor impeachment

If the oft predicted “blue wave” happens it would be hard to interpret it any other way then a mandate to remove Trump. If Muller finds little dirt on Trump this will not change, it will be viewed as a cover up by the Republican law enforcement that stole the election from Hillary, another words similar conspiracy theory type thinking as the Trump voters they deride. Woe to any Dem that votes against removal.

I have often derided progressive delusions regarding the removal of Trump. There is similar delusional thinking among people like me who are anti trump and anti resistance/progressive. The delusions are that this all an aberration, that America in its heart is a moderate country, that cable news and social media is making America seem more divided than it is. That magically sanity will previal once Trump exits the scene etc. etc. While there might truth to these on some level the reality is we have been overthrown and are not coming back or are not coming back for a generation or two and in a way that will be recognizable. We are irrelevant outliers oft viewed as enablers of the evil other side. Trump will go away, the social media and the divisions, zero sum game, conspiracy theory thinking will not magically go away during the next administration.

This may not result in the apocalyptic scenarios some predict but I can’t see how this ends well, something has to give.

To my fellow anti Trump, anti resistance thinkers, moderates, and people who want to go back a time when people had a level of faith in each other and American institutions even though it was not as great as nostalgically remembered I feel for you. While far from perfect America really did have a lot of good things going for it when your thinking held sway. Being an outlier can really suck sometimes, actually more than sometimes. Welcome to how it feels to be autistic.

All we can do is be who we are and try and lesson the damage. Dispite the current zero sum game thinking there is nobility in that.

I’ve never experienced a time when there was peace. Peace for the “defaults,” maybe. But a time when one wasn’t attacked for not being a white, straight, cis, non-immigrant, non-disabled, Christian? I can’t think of one moment where that ever existed.

Is it more out in the open today in recent history? Yes. Is it different? I can’t say it is, it’s just that more people can now see it. I’d say as a minority (hispanic, immigrant, bisexual, and now aspie) the most surprising thing is some think it’s new or that Trump alone ushered it in (Trump’s a symptom, but he isn’t strong enough to be the virus itself). It’s the same old underbelly of the country I’ve known since I was a kid.

America was always divided, it’s just now a camera is being focused on it.

While I feel less safe with Trump - I feel safer that bigots are out in the open and no longer lurking in shadow since our allies can assist us more readily. I’ve found it’s easier knowing where the danger is.

Didn't that idiot get Kim Jung Un to sign an agreement riddled with loopholes that really only specifies that his country dismantle any obvious nukes? Bigots I can handle.

Sounds like the U in USA is just a misnomer. It also sounds like the US's days as a unified nation are numbered. No, I don't think it will split into East and West America tomorrow, but the seeds of disharmony are clearly starting to mature into plants.

As a minority, bigots I can’t “handle” since they’re literally gunning for me. That said, bigots are also cowards and natural born war losers as the Civil War and WWII showed - thus, not intimidated and just see them as slime.

It wouldn’t divide into west and east, it’s already divided by north and south along confederate and union lines. The nation as experienced by minorities was never unified, that has always been one of America’s greatest myths.

Hostility against being a white, straight, gynotropic, non-immigrant, non-disabled, Christian, cis-male is something I've experienced for most of my post-childhood life. As a child, I just thought that all of the meanies hated me for being me. Now I know that no matter how good of a person you are, someday, somewhere, someone is going to associate a purely secondary feature about you with an ideology that is both heinous and despicable. That's life.All that it has done for me is to bring those "Monsters in the Closet" out into the open, where they are just as hideous as I imagined they would be.

The fact that you think being a non-minority is the same as being a minority shows privilege. Not to mention that you think it is, "just life" since if you are the "default" - you don't have to worry about the system keeping you out.

Do the police profile you?

Do people repeatedly call the police on you due alone to how you were born?

(people with mental differences could be profiled in those two areas as well)

When you go to community events are there people there with signs screaming that you're going to hell?

When you leave a club, do you have to worry about someone beating you up (if not killing you) for holding hands with someone of the same-sex? Hell, holding hands with your same-sex partner in broad daylight could even lead to that.

Do you need to worry about being harassed/beat up/killed due to someone find out what gender you are? (thinking trans here, but I'd say cis-females experience this one as well)

Do you encounter signs saying you're not allowed to go in or buy from somewhere due to how you were born? Do you face the possibility of a new form of segregation, for ex: "straights only"?

Do you have people screaming at you not to speak in your primary language?

Do you have to constantly worry about whether your place of worship is going to be burned or shot up due to people associating you with terrorism?

Do you fear Nazis and skinheads lurking outside your place of worship because they know you're Jewish?

Can you be kicked out of your home because of how you were born, such as in liking the same sex or being born in the wrong body?

Do you have people claiming that all of the above is just a "difference in opinion" as though your mere existence is open to debate? (Aspies face this one a lot as well)

Do you have "the default" claiming the members of the groups they belong to being called out is just as bad as all of the above if not worse when the groups they belong to run the world?

These examples could go on for forever.

Being part of a minority group isn't a badge of "honor," it just means the more systematic and personal oppression you're going to face due to how you were born.

I don't think knowing one's privilege is hard either. I'm rich, part of the 1%. I know there are many who despise me for my privilege and some may even target me because of it (lumping me in with fat cats keeping them down). I also know that those who do that live lives that are far more at-risk than my own (knowing privilege is as easy as just knowing statistics). It is one of the privileges that brings power and control. I also know what aspects of my life I have it good in, whereas even the middle class doesn't (again the way I know this is through statistics). I don't deny it or complain that some people hate me because I'm rich, rather I try to find ways to help everyone who's worse off. But, that's just me and how I handle privilege personally.

There are five inescapable facts regarding Social Justice Warriors:

(1) One side's 'Social Justice Warrior' is the other side's 'Troll'.

(2) One side is indistinguishable from the other.

(3) Both sides (collectively) become The Unruly Mob.

(4) All that The Unruly Mob needs to justify its existence is a head on a pike.

(5) Any head will do.

You have chosen my head, and only because you need a head to raise on a pike.

Not that it matters in a global context, but what do you hope to gain?

I'd say "social justice warrior" applies more to the allies of minorities rather than minorities themselves speaking out.

It's clear you'll ignore anything a minority says since it doesn't fit into your bubble.

I didn't single you out, rather I pinpointed how minorities have differences from "the default" overall. You saw it as an attack.

Also, from your post I can tell that you're likely among those who believe that hate crimes are hoaxes - those who are that far gone = not worth my time or effort, to try to reason with, from here on out. Thanks for letting me know.

Last edited by Spooky_Mulder on 14 Jun 2018, 12:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

In my OP I wrote "even though it was not as great as nostalgically remembered". I am not naive about this there were plenty of serious divisions in the 60's and 70's


I can play Oppression Olympics also.
Is your group not even be recognized until you were middle age and still often dismissed as fake?
Have you been profiled because of your traits?
Is your group a popular insult?
If I got a dollar for every time I was called k*e when I was young(often followed by fists) I could buy wrong planet and fix the damn software. I can add to my riches as an adult for every time I hear "Jew You down". The other day I found out "Jew Lightning" means burn a place down for insurance.

And certain groups have it worse than others. Realizing that is good, Wallowing in it is not. Jews have it pretty damn good in America right now and in some important respects, it is getting betting for autistics.

But even in the riotous 60's when this country was seriously strained there was a center, there was widespread agreement on some very basic things, the election system, for the most part, was legitimate, most actions by most people are not done for nefarious reasons, political opponents even if they were horrible people doing horrific things sometimes they are right.

Not really, a SJW is a SJW. Being part of a minority doesn't mean that one cannot be a SJW.

Apologize if it sounded like I was calling you out specifically, from the past know that you wouldn't be one of the people who oddly think bigotry is something that started again in 2016 due to Trump.

Yeah, I'd definitely include aspies (or anyone not neurotypical) as being minorities.

I'm 30, born into the Fox News and social media age. From my perspective, I don't really see a difference. I'm among those who are still surprised Obama made it a full 8 years without being killed. Maybe it was better in the 60s/70s, just wasn't there to see it.



A queer person is often called an SJW by the right simply for stating the discrimination and oppression one faces for being queer. A black person is often called SJW by the right simply for stating the discrimination and oppression one faces for being black. Etc.

Maybe it once held weight, but today it's as over used a phrase as "identity politics" -

People call 'The Force Awakens' "identity politics" since minorities were in the lead, whereas the original white male led ones somehow weren't (?) - pro and anti civil rights or representation are both identity politics.

Last edited by Spooky_Mulder on 14 Jun 2018, 12:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Often Social Justice Warriors are self-appointed, economically privileged people who think they are allies.

Fnord's opinion MAY BE a partially or totally a result of being born in the majority race who has less discriminatory experiences. To say it is automatically a result of automatically being privileged because of his race is a racist statement.

If someone punches you in the face for being black and you complain about it, you are not a SJW. If you REALLY think that people complain about TFA and (especially) TLJ because the lead is a girl and some other guy is black you are either illiterate or a SJW yourself.

Allies, true (part of the reason I'm suspicious of a lot of allies - no idea what they have to gain). Economy? Don't see how that enters into the picture because there are rabid allies who aren't economically well-off as well.

It was either due to lack of empathy (unsure) or he's the new right who complains consistently about other "defaults" being called out - which "hostility against being a white, straight, gynotropic, non-immigrant, non-disabled, Christian, cis-male" resulted in it coming off as. I listed the various minority groups that statistically face the most discrimination and oppression at least in the United States and he came off as though he saw doing that was "hostile" against the "default" - without anything negative being said about the "default."

Last edited by Spooky_Mulder on 14 Jun 2018, 12:40 pm, edited 2 times in total.

A black guy complaining about police profiling, high incarceration rates, the police randomly being called on him, etc. isn't an SJW either - just a guy describing what it's like being black today in America. (I'm not black)

The Force Awakens is not The Last Jedi.

Here's an article that goes into it -

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2015/oct/20/star-wars-force-awakens-really-shock-racist-trolls

Did most to many people react this way? Not at all. Did some very extreme people react this way shouting "SJW" and "identity politics"? Yep.

Last edited by Spooky_Mulder on 14 Jun 2018, 12:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

In TFA the SJWness was already there but it was much more moderate, I wouldn't say tolerable but oh well. I am not saying that it equates TLJ. I mean I didn't like it but not nearly as TLJ. Infact I went to watch TLJ and now after it I am not going to watch any more of it, as I didn't watch Solo.