Russian army has invaded the Crimea

Post Reply New Topic

Even if you don't like the ethnic Ukrainians for whatever reason, they still have the right to exist.

So, Russia invaded Georgia on the pretext of protecting ethnic Russians, and has now invaded Ukraine on the pretext of protecting ethnic Russians. Who's next, London? Seriously, though, it provides a justification for governments to refuse to allow any more immigration from Russia.

There had been a trend for some time for Americans to adopt Russian kids, and even one adoptive parent sent the kid back home! From what I understand the Russians are no longer interested in sending us any of their children, and I can't say I blame them. I suspect things will end up in such a state that the Russians stop allowing their own people to go anywhere. Immigration restrictions on the part of other countries will become a moot point.

But Russia does seem just fine with building up ethnic Russian populations beyond their borders and using that as a divisive strategy to destabilize their neighbors. It's looking as though Ukraine is about to lose Crimea. The Ukrainians will look at Russians moving elsewhere in Ukraine with suspicion. All Russia has to do is generate in influx of ethnic Russians into Kiev and it's all over.

Russia's reasoning for going to war makes more sense than most of our wars have. I couldn't help but to chuckle when John Kerry said that Putin/Russia were acting like it was the 19th century and that you can't invade another country in the 21st century on a trumped up a pre-text.

The people of the Crimea have the same right as self-determination as anyone else. You have to assume that the CIA amongst others probably have their fingers all over this coup in Ukraine they've basically admitted as much in leaked phone calls. The snipers Yanukovych supposedly used against protestors appear to have to been hired by the opposition as to serve as provocateurs, the whole thing is a sham. The media is cancer, they've been pumping us full of anti-Russian propaganda for months now.

The thing is, by doing as they actually do (invading foreign countries to "protect" russian minorities in them), Russia is actually favoring, that ethnic cleansing will be happening again in the future.

Before second worldwar, that "protection" of minorities, was as well used as excuse to engage into foreign countries politics. In the end it leaded to countries simply ending any risc of that happening again, by pushing that minorities out.

Armenian minorities could become a threat again for the turkian country? - Lets wipe them out, no problem with that ever again.

German minorities could become a threat again for Czechian and polish country? - Lets wipe them out, no problem with that ever again.

By engaging into that kind of behavior again (using minorities as reason to engage in military ways), you create as well reasons again for people to wipe out such minority populations. As well that it creates resistance in people, to allow foreign people to settle down. Certain areas of Berlin are as well dominated by turkian people. Does that mean, that turkian military has the right to engage there, anyway if the majority of the affected citizens of that area want it or not? O_o

I don't support any wars, my point is simply the US/NATO/whoever have no moral high ground to stand on when it comes to this conflict. Is Russia protecting ethnic Russians and other interests in Ukraine any different than when the US invaded Grenada or Panama? We carved Kosovo out of Serbia because the area changed from Orthodox to Muslim. I don't think Russia and the US are much different, I doubt that if the Chinese backed an anti-American revolution in Mexico that we'd be too happy about it either.

I simply feel personally really bad about that. In the end, any kind of involvment into such actions, leaded to tons of suffering civilians. Because of that, at least around here in middle europe, its an agreement between countries, to not involve into other countries minorities (beside diplomatic involvement), as well to treat your minorities correctly.

From that point of view, I did not see that the russian minority on krim was threated badly by ukraine government. So there was no campaigns to threat russian speaking minorities in a bad way or surpress them or whatever. So from that point of view, I cannot agree with any military involment.

My country has as well an austrian minority that lives in italy. (South tyrolia in italy.) It might be, that the majority of citizens would rather like to be again a part of Austria, but until they dont suffer a bad by the italian government, from my oppinion I dont see a correct reasn that would allow involvment into that. If they were treated badly or whatever, sure this would be of an issue. So because of that, I dont see as well any "defending actions of russian military" legalized. I accept that in the affected crim area, the small majority of russians, might be feel more attracted to russia. But being more attracted =/ being supressed or treated badly by Ukraine, so thats is for me simply no reason for military aggression.

Only because maybe an majority of people in Florida speaks spanish, that does not make Florida a part of Mexico. Its simply a part of the US, with many people speaking spanish and having mexican origins. But neitherless its the US.

I am sorry, if you thought I wanted to blame you. I simply wanted to mention my feelings, that all of that give me really bad vibes, and I am afraid what might be the global effects of it.

Looks like they are making their move. The Crimean parliament just voted to join Russia. A little hasty and it makes the whole thing look extra dodgy but it seems Putin doesn't care. The only real question is whether Putin will consolidate Crimea and then try in eastern Ukraine. That would be a war.

I also think the Russians really wanted that fleet back but it didn't work. They'll need Odessa to get it.

Last edited by simon_says on 06 Mar 2014, 11:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

The Crimean government will be holding a referendum on whether to join the Russian Federation:

BBC News

Referendums are meaningless when your soldiers guard the ballots and you won't let observers in. It's just window dressing. The only question is if he's done or wants more.

Do you believe that the majority of Crimea does not want to join Russia? I doubt they will need to rig the referendum to get the outcome they want.

I have no idea and neither can anyone else at this point. There was no such activity until the Russian troops arrived so It doesn't appear to be an organic movement. What I do know is that Ukraine had the opportunity to stay with Russia 20 years ago and they voted 92% for independence. Even Crimea voted for it. And I know that not every Russian speaker wants to join Russia. It's not that simple. The best Ukrainian analysis ive read so far suggested that Putin would just push for further autonomy for Crimea. And this is not that.

But it's not that surprising. Whether he's done is the question.

Hmm, I suspected from the beginning this was how it would end up. There isn't really a way back now. The east has a large ethnic Russian population and they mostly voted for Yanukovich, who was basically run out of the country by protests from anti-Russian parties (with Svoboda being near fascist and very anti-Russian).
I'm also curious as to what will happen, if other provinces will break away. I don't think so, unless there are clashes between the government and the local Russians, so Russia can use the same narrative of protecting the locals.

I suspected it would be the case in this thread as well. But writers who know more than I do suggest Putin will stop short of taking land.

And there was no provocation in Crimea. Putin is telling a series of outrageous lies because he can. According to him Russia is fully justified because of x,y,z....and yet Russian troops aren't even there according to Putin. He's speaking to his low information Russian Archie Bunker base and he can say pretty much anything without fear of a pointed question. He can create any pretext he wants or just claim there was a pretext after the fact. It's just down to what he wants to happen.

As this is occurring in Ukraine, last Thursday North Korea test-fired four short-range ballistic missiles and another on Monday. On Tuesday it deployed a new multiple-rocket launcher that fired four missiles with enough range to hit American and South Korean military bases near Seoul. Yesterday, in the Red Sea Israel intercepted an Iranian shipment to Gaza of dozens of Syrian-made surface-to-surface rockets. Also yesterday, Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu announced that Russia plans to use military bases in Cuba, Venezuela and Nicaragua for its navy and to refuel strategic bombers. Followed by China announcing a 12% increase in their military budget.

Oh, one more thing happened. Mr. Obama went to Connecticut to campaign for an increase in the minimum wage and then to Boston for a Democratic fundraiser.

Let’s see how the world likes it when China and Russia become the policeman of the world. We already know how their respective responses to dissent. This isn’t about actually acting militarily, it is about the advantage gained when an adversary believes we might act militarily. Nobody wants the US around, until we’re needed.

There's plenty of ethnic Russians in the area who are afraid of the interim government so they will want to join Russia because the new govt is attempting to deprive them of their rights. If no one stands up to them, they will just keep going and going until we have a really bad situation. The new govt has no legitimacy in it's endeavors to deprive the ethnic Russians.