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Oldavid
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21 May 2015, 5:28 pm

All based on the impossible assumption that life can, and does, spontaneously create itself out of random disorganised matter.



The_Walrus
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21 May 2015, 6:47 pm

Oldavid wrote:
All based on the impossible assumption that life can, and does, spontaneously create itself out of random disorganised matter.

That isn't the assumption at all (and even that isn't impossible - just highly unlikely).



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22 May 2015, 11:47 pm

Ate my post again.



0_equals_true
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24 May 2015, 4:16 pm

Grebels wrote:
Fred,

What you describe here seems very much like something called Mindfulness. It was recommended to me by a doctor at our University Hospital. It is apparently now accepted into the mainstream of medical practise. So, OK, I accept my weaknesses and I'm working on it. The doctor tells me I have to find the answers within myself and I am happy with that. I'm getting better.

Mike



Mindfulness works well becuase it is an anti-philosophy. It is the the total opposite of contemplative meditation. It is about feeling/being not thinking. It is the the over thinking that drives the neurosis.

Mindfulness is about awareness of your body as a whole and the immediate environment, rather than being concerned about creation or evolution, or anything they you can't actually experience right now, and thought in fact. It is not something that requires any belief, nor does it contemplate anything. If you are thinking you are doing in wrong, you need to break out of those thoughts. If fact that is precisely what you are are interrupting, those sort of thoughts as well daily worries like if you left the iron on.

There is research on this, using FRMI. My own cousin did such research on on a related activity "one point" meditation with Tibetan monks. This is simply focusing on the feeling of point in front of your nose and breathing. The research was on perceptual dominance. This is soemthign that is constantly switching in the brain, but has a dominant more frequent side. One experience monk held it on one side for around 7-8 minutes.The control was contemplative mediation of suffering.



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25 May 2015, 1:01 am

So we have Life as the Function of Life.

There I go with aghogday, life can create it's own higher function.

Go for a walk around the block after supper, your entire life will improve.

Within and without some functions expand what it means to be alive.

Life as proven by Science, evolution and museums, claiming other views involve astrology and tin foil hats, is because the Science is lacking the most important fact, how was life created?

Because life uses chemicals that are found in nature, that can bond, without life, therefore, they must have created life?

The chemicals without life are called dead, as is 99% of DNA, and no evidence has been presented of 1% of DNA forming by natural processes.

Life eats, digests, excretes, and reproduces. No natural chemical soup does any of those things.

By Science, our local reality is only a third the age of the universe. We missed the first ten billion years.

Our planet formed of elements created in another star that blew up long ago, perhaps lots of stars. Enough of the result of supernovas got close enough for gravity to affect it, and the elements of the planets are more complex than those of the sun.

Somehow we happened, it was hot, bathed in Cosmic Rays, and so molten that slag formed on top.

Life could not exist in those conditions. It was not till it cooled off enough to have liquid water could life had existed, and then there it was. Life is found in the water, oceans, on rocks near the surface. One life, Blue-Green Algae.

This was the one and only time life appeared, all life since had it as the ancestor. All DNA is but a form of the one original.

If life was a local event, it seems it would happen more than once. What we got was a one time event that unfolded into all forms of life on the planet.

If not local, something that came from another planet blown to bits and across the universe by a supernova, exposed to Cosmic Radiation, surviving for billions of years, and then reviving when a meteor hit the ocean. Most of these events would destroy DNA.

It also does not answer where did life start, and how?

Alien Greys in saucers seeding new worlds with DNA programed to expand into all life has the same problem, where did they come from?

The simplest life forms are too complex to be created by accident. While we can insert the DNA of one life into another, Franken Corn, and make cats that glow in the dark, we cannot make the Gene part of DNA that has that trait, with all available science. While chemicals do form organic compounds, they never form a single Gene.

Life is not a local accident, it is an import.



Oldavid
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25 May 2015, 1:49 am

Inventor wrote:
Life is not a local accident, it is an import.
Uh huh! So where was it imported from and how did it get there?



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25 May 2015, 5:41 am

That is the question science evades, but I have much higher powers, I do not know.

The lack of any DNA fragments produced by natural means, rules out complete and living DNA being produced by accident.

Being blown across the universe by a supernova for several billion years, great heat, hard vacuum, cosmic rays, is way beyond being pasteurized. Then it would have to survive reentry.

Life has not been here that long. Starting with Blue-Green Algae it did not stay the same for long, mutated into a host of life forms, but some like ants and bees have not changed in 350,000,000 years.

Evolution! For some?

Five million years ago we were first cousins of chimps. Nothing has changed for chimps and bonobos.

Evolution! For some?

Intelligence, tool making, and Language has greatly aided our development. No other species has developed this natural evolutionary path?

Except for an accident 65,000,000 years ago, the dominate intelligent life form would have been a reptile.

Alien Greys do look like an evolved lizard.

If life is everywhere, Mars should at least look like a slice of moldy bread.

What God would want eight billion copies of it's self that behave like us?

I have to stick with, I don't know.



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25 May 2015, 7:08 am

Inventor wrote:
That is the question science evades, but I have much higher powers, I do not know.

You and Ghogsy should form an alliance: "It doesn't have to be rational to be saleable".



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25 May 2015, 7:11 am

Life was formed (on Earth) via the transition from protein to DNA, it is theorized.

The whole "God" thing is also a theory.

I think the former is more plausible.



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25 May 2015, 9:12 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
Life was formed (on Earth) via the transition from protein to DNA, it is theorized.

The whole "God" thing is also a theory.

I think the former is more plausible.
You still here, Krafty? I was beginning to think you must have gone to some South Sea Islands to spend all the money you got from the Unpopular Member's Club.

Even the "transition" from a few gasses and liquids to a single protein is physically, chemically impossible; a protein turning itself into thousands of very specific and specialised proteins to make a DNA molecule is even more impossible than impossible if that were possible.



aghogday
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25 May 2015, 10:49 am

Oldavid wrote:
Inventor wrote:
That is the question science evades, but I have much higher powers, I do not know.

You and Ghogsy should form an alliance: "It doesn't have to be rational to be saleable".


Hi, Oldavid.

I am going to give you the 'most

important advice you will ever receive',

My Friend.

Whether or not you take action on it,
is negligible to me, as you are not
my only target audience
when i respond to you
here, by far, so, here

It is:

Here's the thing about Magick.

Whether or not the abstract concept
MagicK can be empirically measured by
science; MAGICK IS REAL, and I will tell you
how Magick works; yes, here now; right here!

If you believe that Magick is real. it does
not matter what form your Wish may take;
it is a proven scientific fact that human behavior
changes to make Magick and or Wishes happen.

It doesn't matter if you call it Magick or Wish;
all that matters is your mind and body work
behind the scenes of your conscious mind
to make Dreams and or Magick Wishes
come to fruition. Oh, and here's
another little bitty scary fact;
as science also shows
not only is the
placebo effect
of affective
thinking
real; so
is the
NOCEBO EFFECT
of negative cynic;
the world's a bad
place of bad people
stuff thinking. And that's
why some folks keep digging
a whole of negativity deeper and
deeper, until finally they just fade away
with only Black MagicK in their life, and
no White Magick, to make dreams come true.

I mean seriously, there is both metaphor and science
to this friend; and seriously this is PROOF THAT i am
JUST selling you something that really works in life;
and honestly it's why hyperbolic marketing works in
both negative and positive ways, as the Placebo effect
of affect, per the human emotions of faith, hope, and
belief are as real as the 'nose on your face'; but if
not utilized; trust me, you will never truly 'smell'
White Magick in your life friend; and that's sad;
but that is your will; and hopefully other
folks will listen and make the real life
dreams of miracles come true in
their life, as I have evidenced in
mine, time and time
again, here.

The bottom line
IS Magick works,
when one has the
formula to make it
happen; so in reality,
ironically enough; yes,
MAGICK is systemizing
science too, and Fred JUST
shows you the science
of it, if you can get
both the metaphor
and science of
it down.

And if you already are doing this;
and just kinda playing devil's advocate
here, with all your cynical material reductionist
views; that's fine too; 'cause as mentioned before
Devil's advocates can be best friends too!

So, here is some more science about Black MagicK:



And here are some more metaphors about White Magick:



Enjoy or not; my friend;

your will in life, and of

course my will is White

Magick, all the time

NOW;

And OMG, the results
are Super Cool;
as again,
evidenced
time and
time again
here! in my
own science
and metaphor
project that
is
ME
for
NOW..;)
as a real
'S UPERMAN';
O F
'S'
HOPE
COME
ALIVE
AGAIN!

And just in case, you
do not see 'the movie
Superman, the latest
one; yes, S means
hope and F
means
Fred
with S
O
S..:)

(;for full disclosure:)

Hmm.. 'Super F of Hope'
sounds like a 'good'
'one' for
this..;)

(Thanks God; i am wishing
for a great title!)

Thanks, for the inspiration Oldavid;
you are simply amazing,
as a muse for
me; light
or dark;
male or
female;
reAlly
nice like
my Angel
Muslim
Friend,
'Rafiah';
or NOT;
matters
not;
the muse
is the muse..;)


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The_Walrus
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25 May 2015, 11:50 am

Oldavid wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
Life was formed (on Earth) via the transition from protein to DNA, it is theorized.


Even the "transition" from a few gasses and liquids to a single protein is physically, chemically impossible; a protein turning itself into thousands of very specific and specialised proteins to make a DNA molecule is even more impossible than impossible if that were possible.

I don't think kraftiekortie either quite remembers what he has been told, or else he hasn't expressed it very clearly. It isn't that proteins "turn into" DNA, it's that nucleic acids started storing information relating to amino acid sequences.

You are incorrect to say that the transition from prebiotic gases and liquids to proteins is impossible. Amino acids are formed in a range of atmospheres when exposed to electricity: http://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/articlep ... c3cs35433d - as the article details, there would have been both volcanic and atmospheric lightening at the time to provide this spark. Amino acids form proteins in simple condensation reactions.



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25 May 2015, 2:54 pm

^^^

That's IT; not unlike the new Prometheus Frankenstein;
life starts with a spark of Electricity or Intense Light
aka Lightening.

It just starts small
and then evolves
into super cool
stuff like
Humans, Dolphins,
Whales, Bonobos;
'And All the Rest!'..:)
AKA
God for
the entire
Enchilada
of creative
evolving
EXISTENCE!
otherwise known
as the
'Star
Wars
FORCE!'

So, may the Force be
with 'you'; AS
also
with
'us'..:)

No wonder, we humans
Love to watch Lightening
so much, as it 'reminds' 'us'
of 'our' beginnings of 'all
that is' 'US'
from LIGHTening
Force of Nature
aka
GOD..:)

(per Amino acids, sparked by electricity
forming into proteins, first, then evolution
that continues on to make all the cool stuff
that lives as us!)


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B19
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25 May 2015, 3:22 pm

Life is a learning curve.

An opportunity to learn to love and be loved, to connect, to develop your aptitudes, to become more loving, wiser and to make better choices. To grow in all these ways. Whether good or bad things happen, they are all events that offer learning opportunities.



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25 May 2015, 4:09 pm

Life uses existing chemical reactions. It also uses electric charges and light.

That combining these things produce some of the same results, is to be expected.

What never happens is Gene Formation.

None of the results continue to produce results.

DNA cannot be built from this construction set.

A jet airliner was made from common earth materials, but you cannot make one from mud.

A jet plane is a simple design compared to DNA. While they eat, digest, excrete, they cannot reproduce.

All Life comes from a single source, and only Life can Die.

Science has produced thousands of forms of Death, but not a single fragment of Life.

Life also has a huge Epigenetic Potential. It can self manifest far from the Mean in both directions, (See aghogday et al)

Studies of famine show genetic results in following generations, all on the downside. Further study may show the same results in people who missed the famine, and moved there after it was over. There is a Field Effect of Epigenetics.

Self directed Epigenetics can rejuvenate the Mind and Body. Also through The Field Effect, cause the same in others they are in contact with.

Life considers being alive just the start.

Science can claim it is just an accident, and religion that the sand god of the sand people gave then rule over all life, to kill, and turn the world to sand. The Middle East shows where that leads.

The origin of life has no meaning, the reality of being alive is everything.

All of life is one thing. Our actions do have results, I want more Butterflies and Hummingbirds.



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25 May 2015, 7:01 pm

The most important thing I learn about life, in the last two years; that I never really know, before 2013, in terms of innate instinct and intuition; is the fact that humans have the ability to 'hear' the call of the wild and act on it; really no different than any other social animal.

The call of the wild is a really important instinct for social animals and truly basically it means connecting with nature, gaining subsistence, reproducing, and maintaining animal homeostasis and conserving energy at all times for maximum potential in gaining all of the above.

While many of us have an all we can eat assortment of sugars, fats, carbohydrates, proteins and plenty of water to drink out of the faucet and or plastic bottle; this is instant gratification, as a way of life, compared to the evolved human animal for periods of time without food, where challenge and adaptation to challenge in PHYSICAL ways is the name of the game for survival.

In my practice of Martial Arts/Ballet-like Dance Walk; now if I want to sneak up on; say a squirrel; to take a photo in my yard; I can do it at a speed slow enough like a cat in balance, not turning a leave (me at 230LBS) and make the picture before the squirrel scurries.

Before, my lumbering robot walk will scare the squirrel away, well before I get close enough for the photo shoot I want close up..:)

Interestingly, in studying wild animal behavior, as compared to World Noted, Asperger's Expert, Tony Atwood's 'Spot the Aspie' segment that he does in his lectures where he walks with his butt sticking out, and head tilted down toward the floor a few feet ahead; is well, yes, the way I walk before; to much ridicule by others, in life; discomfort even standing still; and truly having to copy my wife walking in total comfort or whomever else is with me in stores, before I turn 53, to even frigging be comfortable in my own skin, part of the way.

And truly this is a major source of human anxiety; NOT TO feel comfortable in one's own skin.

But the issue is, for me at least; is it an innate issue or an environmental issue, from all those gold star academic awards sitting still in lectures; being too timid to play team sports to get all around the field, and yes, after two years I can say with certainty now that other humans are amazed, in empirical terms by what they describe as excellent posture and graceful terrestrial like butterfly walk, where in a way I walk right out of a cocoon of discomfort fostered by a truly insane culture focusing on head thinking, rather than body thinking in feelings and emotions; at least in my case. Yes; Ha! some folks suggest I grow taller, who have not seen me for over a decade; but that's what good posture looks like; taller..:)

And oh, yeah; emotions everywhere, never controlled by me, and a dizzy boy who cannot walk straight with integrated senses before 2013; with mind and body balance now, through the actual practice of Dance Walking a martial arts/ ballet style for 3629 miles, in 21 months, in most all public area stores, by measure of Nike GPS sports watch; all that is under control with the practice of human relative free will; not unlike eastern philosophies that pursue martial arts as a way of life.

But here's the other thing and it is extremely important. The ancestry of human being encoded in our DNA for innate instinct and intuition is the necessity of defending ourselves from physical threats from human beings and other animals. Now of course, walking 'invisibly' helps to escape the predator of other animals; but that just will not work with the predator who is human, as humans stick together and are hard to escape.

So the choice in that is fight or flight. But the thing is, if one never develops skills to defend themselves physically; other than weapons, the only choice is flight, which is an anxious thingy by instinct that one lives with all the time around other folks, if they never learn now to defend themselves comfortable in their own skin, doing it, as well.

And then there is the instinct for reproduction, and for females it is not as strong after bonding for a family as far as sampling what's out there out of the 'cave'; but males, overall, are another story, and to repress that drive has consequences of natural penalties by nature, in ways of deficits in hormones, and strength to get that instinctual job done.

So what to do; play with it; and while that can be taken literally; that's not quite the full hormonal effect of being
around flesh and blood T & A. And it's truly amazing, as when I start going back to the dance clubs to dance, last spring; I am kinda, a little bit like 'Free Willy', before he escapes his water prison.

I am just not as virile, nearly as virile, as I used to be in my 20's, overall, and not just talking about sex; the whole
male package from head to toe in confidence, is more what I am speaking to here. And now after a year of dancing with all the young women; ALL THAT CHANGES, for me, now, big time..:)

But yeah, married and all, in my 30's, back then, now with me fixing to turn 55, there is just too much stress then, with work and all, to even worry about basic animal innate, instinctual, and intuitive call of the wild stuff.

Go to work, go home, watch TV, play a video game, go to bed, get up, for five days; get all the housework related subsistence gathering stuff done on the weekend, and then the rat race continues on for decades, in a maze of culture far removed from the call of the wild, as experienced before marriage, mortgages, and all the complicated stuff of life spent in a head of mechanical cognition; instead of much greater potential physical intelligence to basically be more undomesticated again in mind and body balance with emotions regulated, senses integrated, and much
better cognitive executive functioning by way of focus and short term working memory for REAL SUCCESS!..:)

What I am saying here, is; at least for human beings who go back to nature; even having the opportunity to hear the call of the wild, and act on it; is amazing human potential that can be gained, if one really listens to their inner free warrior and survivor, and makes life an imaginative and creative physical potential, instead of just stuck in a mechanical cognition mindset of work, and the rest of day to day life.

And the greatest thing of all about becoming proficient with a unique style of dance, is one does not have to go to the female dancers; they come on their own, as most all females love nothing better in the bar life than a man who can shake his groove thing. Over 200 photos documented in my blogs tell the tale on that with smiling ear to ear women, with me and the muse of dance I bring.

Now to be clear; not every middle aged guy is cut out to do this stuff; including the leg pressing 930LB thingy with my arms raised in the air slowly and surely on a parallel leg press machine; BUT, FOR all practical intents and purposes, as the last kid picked on sports teams, even behind girls in school; I do not seem to be cut out for it either.

But here is where the real KICKER (930LBS OR SO), comes into play. Epigenetic potential through challenge and adaptation to created environmental challenge is what makes most all this stuff possible for me.

I show photos of me as a teenager here, and I am much more of a weak looking teenager, than most of what I see in the photos of males here.

A major issue on this Internet site freely discussed here is disdain for alpha males; and the sadness that comes with being a weaker male, in terms of reproductive success, acceptance, and success in the work place.

Trust me after being the human archetype

of omega male and alpha male;

Alpha male is much more fun.

And yeah, even in the wild; the omega male can adapt and does move
to the top, as well, with proper physical intelligence challenges.

So what this means is; fuller success in life, in what really
counts; and don't 'fool oneself'; I've been around the block
too many times to fool myself, to Know I am just another
male social animal; with all the potential pitfalls
and successes that comes with that; physical
challenge, adaptation, and growing stronger
in success of male social animal
or moving down the
totem pole
of
the call
of the wild
IS a Real Deal.

Being wild and being able to control it,
to keep a wife, and all of that
through human relative
free will, is the
secret
to what I can
do, epigenetically speaking;
that I have evidenced on this
site time and time again; just to
let other folks know, they do not
have to spend life with their 'tales'
between their legs, shuffling along
in robot walk, looking at the floor
instead of standing tall, with head
faced forward, ready to meet,
any instinctual challenge that
comes in terms of physical
defense, whether or not
it really comes or not;
and I will tell you
this; if you get a
'leg up' on it early;
the way folks are
becoming softer and
softer; YOU WILL have
a huge advantage over
others in success in life.
Nature rules humans; there
is no fooling Mother Nature;
but there are ways to make
'her' work to YOUR ADVANTAGE.

IT'S KINDA LIKE THE VIDEO BELOW;

'Apes Together STRONG'



LIKE Inventor says; I am
no longer a 'hairless
ground ape'; I move
WITH THE CALL OF
THE WILD that
truly is
the
'VOICE' OF
GOD
INSIDE
ME..:)

Truly; not
unlike that
half wolf and
domesticated
dog in the book by Jack
London of the same name.

And yeah, that book brings tears
to my eyes, as a youth reading it;
but truly the tears then
are for me;
as clearly
recognizing
that now;
as just
another
SOCIAL
ANIMAL ON
GOD'S GREAT
GREEN AND
BLUE EARTH;
THAT IS
inseparable
from
God as
Nature
and 'US',
when wild
and
free....

And yeah, there's a theme song
for that, too; smiles, and
again; Apes
Together
STRONG..:)


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