Feminism Has to Go...

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Fugu
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05 Feb 2016, 4:00 pm

slenkar wrote:

In the sixties and seventies feminist structures were created
E.g.
Women's studies departments
Ms magazine
Organizations like NOW

Subsequently feminists got everything they wanted in like 1980

But they can't admit it as hundreds of jobs are at stake

is that why women on average got paid 80% of what men did in 2010?
http://www.ilo.org/washington/areas/gender-equality-in-the-workplace/WCMS_159496/lang--en/index.htm

Wolfram87
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05 Feb 2016, 4:04 pm

"got paid" =/= "earned".

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slenkar
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05 Feb 2016, 4:12 pm

Yes the feminist structures have to propagate these lies or they will be shut down.

It's kind of like a car factory being created and then demand for cars goes down,
every member of staff will fight against the factory closing down.

The idea of micro aggressions had to be created as justification for the structure's continued existence.

androbot01
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05 Feb 2016, 4:40 pm

Hopper wrote:

Yeah, just don't use the word 'feminist'. Speak directly to what's at issue, what's botheing you, rather than an abstract label.

I think sometimes people use the term feminist because they think it gives them a pass for bashing women, which is what they really want to do.

Nebogipfel
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05 Feb 2016, 6:40 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1WFOoOGKaU

TheExodus
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05 Feb 2016, 7:36 pm

Feminism is very toxic right now, nobody much wants to associate with it anymore. It's why it's become a dirty word to many people. I think the biggest stab was with GamerGate, how Feminists tried to hijack it and claim it to be a "misogynist hate group", which it obviously wasn't (or isn't, if it's still functional). As has been said numerous times before; Feminists made the mistake of picking a fight with gamers and thinking that they'd win.

Whatever you feel is the largest insult regarding the third wave Feminist movement (be it Laci Green, Anita Sarkeesian, Rebecca Watson, college campuses, Canada, political correctness, etc.), it's evident why so many people have grown to hate it. Funnily enough, I had once had somebody convince me that that side of Feminism is just a vocal minority and that most Feminists do believe in equality. That being said, let's just say I've become far more jaded since then.

Fugu wrote:

slenkar wrote:

is that why women on average got paid 80% of what men did in 2010?
http://www.ilo.org/washington/areas/gender-equality-in-the-workplace/WCMS_159496/lang--en/index.htm

All that link proves is that women work less than men. If anything else was going on, we'd have heard about it by now. If there were anything else involved, it would technically be unlawful. That's all there is involved in the wage gap; technicalities.

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100000fireflies
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06 Feb 2016, 4:14 am

TheExodus wrote:

Fugu wrote:

slenkar wrote:

is that why women on average got paid 80% of what men did in 2010?
http://www.ilo.org/washington/areas/gender-equality-in-the-workplace/WCMS_159496/lang--en/index.htm

All that link proves is that women work less than men. If anything else was going on, we'd have heard about it by now. If there were anything else involved, it would technically be unlawful. That's all there is involved in the wage gap; technicalities.

So everything "unlawful" never happens?

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100000fireflies
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06 Feb 2016, 4:31 am

slenkar wrote:

The feminist structures? I guess i missed these on my drive today.

I by my definition probably am a feminist. Never gave it a ton of thought, but any time someone here says women have it easier blah blah they just have to sit and look pretty or all women want blah blah, i say something. And i would too if i saw someone prattling about how all guys this or that.

To me, feminism is equality. Feminism = women are people equal to men and thus men are people equal to women. No more, no less. Equal pay, equal work opportunities, equal rights, equal stay at home with the kid opportunities - as chosen based purely on individual family preferences .
And opening doors as someone mentioned, if anyone opens a door for me, that's lovely. If i see someone close behind, i do the same.

Hating men etc etc...there is 'radical' of any belief. E.g. to me, "radical feminism" is not redundant.
Being Christian doesn't automatically make you of the extreme views some declare under that flag..that's why they're called radical and extreme.they aren't the average view of the belief.

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Ardentmisanthrope23
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06 Feb 2016, 8:13 am

If you believe in equality, it should be TOTAL, as much as is possible, so why have a movement that is only about a single groups rights? Equality should be pushed forward for everyone, equally. That's kind of the point. Egalitarianism as a movement, not partisan, sliced up activism for one group only

"We are all equal, but some are more equal than others" Animal farm.

All inequality plays across the boundaries of gender, race, class, etc. The interplay informs the expression of the prejudices, and so you cannot deal with one issue in isolation, because it is rarely just about race or gender or class, etc.

When a woman of a particular ethnicity is getting grief off a guy who is of another or vice versa and there is a prejudicial slant, In many cases it will be both the gender and the race that will be informing the bigoted hostility.

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0_equals_true
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06 Feb 2016, 9:06 am

Those that identify with feminism is down in real terms

2013 Poll report those that identify as feminist as 28%
https://today.yougov.com/news/2013/05/0 ... irty-word/

2015 Poll reports 18%
http://www.vox.com/2015/4/8/8372417/fem ... ality-poll

That is down 10%

Most people agree on gender quality however.

I think the decline is in large part down to draconian regressives leaving a sour taste, and also a step change in how people see the whole equality issue being addressed.

LKL
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06 Feb 2016, 1:11 pm

Wolfram87 wrote:

"got paid" =/= "earned".

To cite the most obvious example, an unskilled woman working full time as a child care provider will make less than an unskilled man, working the exact same hours, painting houses.
http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes399011.htm
http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes472141.htm

They'll both get home tired, sore, and worn out. The society treats women's work as something that women should just gift to the world, though, rather than as 'work' that takes actual effort.

wrt. the word 'feminism,' I'm sort of ok with not using that word and focusing on the individual issues instead, but the variability in use and misuse of the word applies to opponents of equality/proponents of equality as well: some people say, "I'm against feminism," and they mean, "women should remain virgins until marriage, marry a man that their father picks for them, and then have no personal control over how many kids they produce," and other people say, "I'm against feminism," and they mean, "I don't think that men should be sterilized and/or kept in concentration camps." (to illustrate with extremes). It's easy for equality-minded people to get their backs up over the words 'I'm against feminism,' based on how many of the people who say such things (*especially* in US politics) are closer to the former than to the latter. I'm looking at you, Todd "Legitimate Rape" Akin.

0_equals_true
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06 Feb 2016, 1:25 pm

Painting is not completely unskilled. Anyone can put a coat on pain on, but to do it well that is different matter. There is actually quite a bit of knowledge involved.

Child care is underpaid, but so is being a biologist, generally speaking.

It is not simply a question of demand, it is a question of what people are willing to pay or could pay.

Daycare is actually quite expensive, so it would to good to see how the money used. There are more children, becuase there are more working parents.

Alternative model of daycare is where families network, and take it in turns to do daycare in eachother's homes.

adifferentname
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06 Feb 2016, 1:34 pm

androbot01 wrote:

Hopper wrote:

Yeah, just don't use the word 'feminist'. Speak directly to what's at issue, what's botheing you, rather than an abstract label.

I think sometimes people use the term feminist because they think it gives them a pass for bashing women, which is what they really want to do.

I think sometimes people use the term feminist because they think it's interchangeable with women and enables them to paint their target as misogynistic. They're wrong, of course.

AR15000
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06 Feb 2016, 1:39 pm

Dox47 wrote:

...At least the word 'feminism', as it means so many things to so many people these days that it's actually counterproductive to use, as it just leads to endless arguments over the "real" meaning. Further, I think there's a bit of bait and switch going on with the term, as I've increasingly grown to associate it with erosion of free speech and due process, screaming students demanding trigger warnings and safe spaces, everything being interpreted in the least charitable way possible so that it can be labeled "problematic", etc, only to then be told that "feminism simply means treating women like people" when I raise any of these points, usually followed up with an attempt to paint me as sexist.

So, my initial suggestion is that 'feminism' means the whole SJW privilege and micro-aggressions shebang that everyone but the feminists agrees is becoming a problem, while the 'treating women like people' school be split off into Women's Rights Activism/ists, or WRA(S), having a useful symmetry with the way men's rights activism is abbreviated. I'm just talking usage here, not an actual division, as that would be up to the people involved, I just want a quick and easy way to differentiate when talking about this, so that I don't get dogpiled by a bunch of people who think I'm talking about them, when I'm really referring to a specific sub-group, that I don't have to continually clarify.

Anyone else have any thoughts?

Hey-hey! Ho-ho! Femin-ism has got to go! :mrgreen:

adifferentname
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06 Feb 2016, 1:43 pm

LKL wrote:

Wolfram87 wrote:

"got paid" =/= "earned".

So child care providers are making the wrong choice. By all means argue that child care warrants higher reimbursement, that investing in our children's welfare should be more important than investing in the aesthetics of a garden fence. Do not, however, make the mistake of blaming the painter or the child carer for making their choices. Your problem here is not one of gender, it's your valuation of surrogate child-rearing.

Quote:

wrt. the word 'feminism,' I'm sort of ok with not using that word and focusing on the individual issues instead, but the variability in use and misuse of the word applies to opponents of equality/proponents of equality as well: some people say, "I'm against feminism," and they mean, "women should remain virgins until marriage, marry a man that their father picks for them, and then have no personal control over how many kids they produce," and other people say, "I'm against feminism," and they mean, "I don't think that men should be sterilized and/or kept in concentration camps." (to illustrate with extremes). It's easy for equality-minded people to get their backs up over the words 'I'm against feminism,' based on how many of the people who say such things (*especially* in US politics) are closer to the former than to the latter. I'm looking at you, Todd "Legitimate Rape" Akin.

Which is why I prefer to focus on the actions and arguments of feminists (or indeed anyone else I find myself in opposition to), rather than a vaguely-defined non-uniform ideological fiction.

slenkar
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06 Feb 2016, 1:51 pm

A woman could paint the house and earn more than a man doing childcare

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