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Is There an Anti-Science Conspiracy?
Yes, Fnord; and they're all out to get you, too! 18%  18%  [ 11 ]
Yes, but it is informal and not organized. 32%  32%  [ 19 ]
Maybe, Maybe not. WP is not the Royal Academy of Science. 2%  2%  [ 1 ]
No, people just don't like being told what to think. 30%  30%  [ 18 ]
No, everybody loves science and wants to be scientists! 3%  3%  [ 2 ]
On Planet-X, you can earn a PhD in Ice Cream Science. 8%  8%  [ 5 ]
Other: ________________ (please Elaborate Below). 7%  7%  [ 4 ]
Total votes : 60

Bezeone
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02 May 2013, 12:06 am

Personally, for the most part, I don't think of science as disproving God's exisence. Rather, he made complex designs that winded up imperfect. Then there's such things as evolution and the age of the Earth...Oi

So, for the most part, I don't have any feelings towards science.



Fnord
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02 May 2013, 7:39 am

Bezeone wrote:
Personally, for the most part, I don't think of science as disproving God's exisence...

There is no possible way to disprove the existence of God, without becoming god-like ourselves.



BeautifulTechno
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02 May 2013, 7:57 am

Bezeone wrote:
Personally, for the most part, I don't think of science as disproving God's exisence. Rather, he made complex designs that winded up imperfect. Then there's such things as evolution and the age of the Earth...Oi

So, for the most part, I don't have any feelings towards science.


Would you have feelings if Science would prove God's existence?



donothing1979
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02 May 2013, 9:14 am

Fnord wrote:
Bezeone wrote:
Personally, for the most part, I don't think of science as disproving God's exisence...

There is no possible way to disprove the existence of God, without becoming god-like ourselves.


proving or disproving the existence of God is not the job of science or scientists.

– that's an olde trope, but i like it.


_________________
...


BeautifulTechno
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02 May 2013, 10:31 am

donothing1979 wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Bezeone wrote:
Personally, for the most part, I don't think of science as disproving God's exisence...

There is no possible way to disprove the existence of God, without becoming god-like ourselves.


proving or disproving the existence of God is not the job of science or scientists.


One of their hobbies? :lol:



Fnord
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02 May 2013, 10:35 am

BeautifulTechno wrote:
donothing1979 wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Bezeone wrote:
Personally, for the most part, I don't think of science as disproving God's exisence...
There is no possible way to disprove the existence of God, without becoming god-like ourselves.
proving or disproving the existence of God is not the job of science or scientists.
One of their hobbies? :lol:

Not at all.

All I ask for is proof. All I receive are snarky comments from believers - and no proof.



BeautifulTechno
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02 May 2013, 10:39 am

Fnord wrote:
BeautifulTechno wrote:
donothing1979 wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Bezeone wrote:
Personally, for the most part, I don't think of science as disproving God's exisence...
There is no possible way to disprove the existence of God, without becoming god-like ourselves.
proving or disproving the existence of God is not the job of science or scientists.
One of their hobbies? :lol:

Not at all.

All I ask for is proof. All I receive are snarky comments from believers - and no proof.


Some of scientists try to deny the believers arguments. Now, that's not refuting or support the existence of a God. It's just making sense! Am I right or not?



Fnord
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02 May 2013, 10:52 am

BeautifulTechno wrote:
Fnord wrote:
BeautifulTechno wrote:
donothing1979 wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Bezeone wrote:
Personally, for the most part, I don't think of science as disproving God's exisence...
There is no possible way to disprove the existence of God, without becoming god-like ourselves.
proving or disproving the existence of God is not the job of science or scientists.
One of their hobbies?
Not at all. All I ask for is proof. All I receive are snarky comments from believers - and no proof.
Some of scientists try to deny the believers arguments. Now, that's not refuting or support the existence of a God. It's just making sense! Am I right or not?

The arguments that get denied usually arise from baseless assumptions, distorted data, or fallacious reasoning.

I have yet to encounter a person who could provide valid material evidence for the existence of God - a miracle, perhaps.

For instance: If a believer would pray over my disfigured hand while invoking God and the missing digits would immediately re-grow, then that would undeniably prove that existence of God (to me, at least).

Which begs the question: "Why Won't God Heal Amputees?"

We can actually answer this question with a simple experiment....
Quote:
A simple experiment

For this experiment, we need to find a deserving person who has had both of his legs amputated. For example, find a sincere, devout veteran of the Iraqi war, or a person who was involved in a tragic automobile accident.

Now create a prayer circle like the one created for Jeanna Giese. The job of this prayer circle is simple: pray to God to restore the amputated legs of this deserving person. I do not mean to pray for a team of renowned surgeons to somehow graft the legs of a cadaver onto the soldier, nor for a team of renowned scientists to craft mechanical legs for him. Pray that God spontaneously and miraculously restores the soldier's legs overnight, in the same way that God spontaneously and miraculously cured Jeanna Giese and Marilyn Hickey's mother.

If possible, get millions of people all over the planet to join the prayer circle and pray their most fervent prayers. Get millions of people praying in unison for a single miracle for this one deserving amputee. Then stand back and watch.

What is going to happen? Jesus clearly says that if you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer. He does not say it once -- he says it many times in many ways in the Bible.

And yet, even with millions of people praying, nothing will happen.

No matter how many people pray. No matter how sincere those people are. No matter how much they believe. No matter how devout and deserving the recipient. Nothing will happen. The legs will not regenerate. Prayer does not restore the severed limbs of amputees. You can electronically search through all the medical journals ever written -- there is no documented case of an amputated leg being restored spontaneously. And we know that God ignores the prayers of amputees through our own observations of the world around us. If God were answering the prayers of amputees to regenerate their lost limbs, we would be seeing amputated legs growing back every day.


All I hear are excuses as to why it is the amputees' fault that God won't heal them - Blaming the Victims, as it were.



BeautifulTechno
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02 May 2013, 11:41 am

Yes, it is pure nonsense. Imagine that those amputees were fighting for God's cause - why won't He heal them? Even though millions of people pray for a person to get cured, why doesn't He heal it? If he was fighting for His cause, is he the one to blame? Why was he amputated and hurt in the first place?



Fnord
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02 May 2013, 12:02 pm

It seems that "Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you." (MAT 7:7) either has some hidden conditions that no amputee could possibly meet (even those innocent babies born without limbs), or it's an outright lie.

Which is it?



BeautifulTechno
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02 May 2013, 12:11 pm

All lies for me. There's all kinds of supplications and there's no results, as you said. But there's no apparent reason to deny them, so why doesn't he cured the leper and the suffering thorougly?



NewDawn
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02 May 2013, 3:57 pm

1000Knives wrote:
I like Chinese medicine a lot for example. Applying Chinese medicine theory helped me cure a UTI infection doctors couldn't. I had strong antibiotics, and it did nothing. I went to a doctor, and he simply billed $100 and was like "yeah, well, some guys it just hurts down there and it's normal and stuff." Thanks man. It was only after I read Chinese medical theory about "cooling" and "heat" food and body states, did I realize that my problem was too much "heat." And my UTI is gone now. I don't care if science says Chinese medicine is not true, I applied a theory, albeit based off anecdotal evidence, and got results I wanted.


What you are experiencing is the difference between commerce and science. Many doctors over-prescribe antibiotics (and antidepressants, antacids and statins) with predictable disasterous results. Bacteria have been around a lot longer than we have, and will rapidly become resistant to an antibiotic if it is prescribed indiscriminately. What you describe (if ampiciline doesn't work, try the most powerfull one) happens all to often, much to the grief of molecular biologists. Totally useless. An antibiotic doesn't work because whatever bacterium was causing your UTI, was resistant to it already. That is why Chinese herbs can do the trick. Many plants and funghi have antibiotic properties. The antibiotics that are prescribed are also purified from plants. Antibiotics aren't anything new. Bacteria have had to deal with them long before we came around. If you throw one at them they have *not* come across a gazillion times, chances are very good that they die. So, please don't blame the science. Blame the pharmaceutical industry and irresponsible doctors. And learn some biology so that you know *why* the standard antibiotics produced by the pharmaceutical industry are becoming increasingly ineffective. It will help us all.



boywonder
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02 May 2013, 4:09 pm

So science has been hijacked by business, great!


Its a bit like anything, take the music industry. Some artists are good looking talentless money whores and others are real musicians.
Some scientists will be hot air hollow fakers, and significant others will have good work corrupted due to commercial pressure.

Imagine if they made a car that used less fuel? :arrow:



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02 May 2013, 5:12 pm

Cars are already using less fuel than they used to. They’ve been slowly improving their efficiency all the time.



cubedemon6073
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02 May 2013, 9:50 pm

Fnord wrote:
BeautifulTechno wrote:
Fnord wrote:
BeautifulTechno wrote:
donothing1979 wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Bezeone wrote:
Personally, for the most part, I don't think of science as disproving God's exisence...
There is no possible way to disprove the existence of God, without becoming god-like ourselves.
proving or disproving the existence of God is not the job of science or scientists.
One of their hobbies?
Not at all. All I ask for is proof. All I receive are snarky comments from believers - and no proof.
Some of scientists try to deny the believers arguments. Now, that's not refuting or support the existence of a God. It's just making sense! Am I right or not?

The arguments that get denied usually arise from baseless assumptions, distorted data, or fallacious reasoning.

I have yet to encounter a person who could provide valid material evidence for the existence of God - a miracle, perhaps.

For instance: If a believer would pray over my disfigured hand while invoking God and the missing digits would immediately re-grow, then that would undeniably prove that existence of God (to me, at least).

Which begs the question: "Why Won't God Heal Amputees?"

We can actually answer this question with a simple experiment....
Quote:
A simple experiment

For this experiment, we need to find a deserving person who has had both of his legs amputated. For example, find a sincere, devout veteran of the Iraqi war, or a person who was involved in a tragic automobile accident.

Now create a prayer circle like the one created for Jeanna Giese. The job of this prayer circle is simple: pray to God to restore the amputated legs of this deserving person. I do not mean to pray for a team of renowned surgeons to somehow graft the legs of a cadaver onto the soldier, nor for a team of renowned scientists to craft mechanical legs for him. Pray that God spontaneously and miraculously restores the soldier's legs overnight, in the same way that God spontaneously and miraculously cured Jeanna Giese and Marilyn Hickey's mother.

If possible, get millions of people all over the planet to join the prayer circle and pray their most fervent prayers. Get millions of people praying in unison for a single miracle for this one deserving amputee. Then stand back and watch.

What is going to happen? Jesus clearly says that if you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer. He does not say it once -- he says it many times in many ways in the Bible.

And yet, even with millions of people praying, nothing will happen.

No matter how many people pray. No matter how sincere those people are. No matter how much they believe. No matter how devout and deserving the recipient. Nothing will happen. The legs will not regenerate. Prayer does not restore the severed limbs of amputees. You can electronically search through all the medical journals ever written -- there is no documented case of an amputated leg being restored spontaneously. And we know that God ignores the prayers of amputees through our own observations of the world around us. If God were answering the prayers of amputees to regenerate their lost limbs, we would be seeing amputated legs growing back every day.


All I hear are excuses as to why it is the amputees' fault that God won't heal them - Blaming the Victims, as it were.


I didn't know you had a disfigured hand. I am glad you are okay. You know, I have never heard of God re-growing anyone's limb throughout human history whatsoever. If this happened today it would be on national news. Even Kim Kardashian would have a stake in this. :lol:



Bezeone
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03 May 2013, 5:00 pm

cubedemon6073 wrote:
Fnord wrote:
BeautifulTechno wrote:
Fnord wrote:
BeautifulTechno wrote:
donothing1979 wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Bezeone wrote:
Personally, for the most part, I don't think of science as disproving God's exisence...
There is no possible way to disprove the existence of God, without becoming god-like ourselves.
proving or disproving the existence of God is not the job of science or scientists.
One of their hobbies?
Not at all. All I ask for is proof. All I receive are snarky comments from believers - and no proof.
Some of scientists try to deny the believers arguments. Now, that's not refuting or support the existence of a God. It's just making sense! Am I right or not?

The arguments that get denied usually arise from baseless assumptions, distorted data, or fallacious reasoning.

I have yet to encounter a person who could provide valid material evidence for the existence of God - a miracle, perhaps.

For instance: If a believer would pray over my disfigured hand while invoking God and the missing digits would immediately re-grow, then that would undeniably prove that existence of God (to me, at least).

Which begs the question: "Why Won't God Heal Amputees?"

We can actually answer this question with a simple experiment....
Quote:
A simple experiment

For this experiment, we need to find a deserving person who has had both of his legs amputated. For example, find a sincere, devout veteran of the Iraqi war, or a person who was involved in a tragic automobile accident.

Now create a prayer circle like the one created for Jeanna Giese. The job of this prayer circle is simple: pray to God to restore the amputated legs of this deserving person. I do not mean to pray for a team of renowned surgeons to somehow graft the legs of a cadaver onto the soldier, nor for a team of renowned scientists to craft mechanical legs for him. Pray that God spontaneously and miraculously restores the soldier's legs overnight, in the same way that God spontaneously and miraculously cured Jeanna Giese and Marilyn Hickey's mother.

If possible, get millions of people all over the planet to join the prayer circle and pray their most fervent prayers. Get millions of people praying in unison for a single miracle for this one deserving amputee. Then stand back and watch.

What is going to happen? Jesus clearly says that if you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer. He does not say it once -- he says it many times in many ways in the Bible.

And yet, even with millions of people praying, nothing will happen.

No matter how many people pray. No matter how sincere those people are. No matter how much they believe. No matter how devout and deserving the recipient. Nothing will happen. The legs will not regenerate. Prayer does not restore the severed limbs of amputees. You can electronically search through all the medical journals ever written -- there is no documented case of an amputated leg being restored spontaneously. And we know that God ignores the prayers of amputees through our own observations of the world around us. If God were answering the prayers of amputees to regenerate their lost limbs, we would be seeing amputated legs growing back every day.


All I hear are excuses as to why it is the amputees' fault that God won't heal them - Blaming the Victims, as it were.


I didn't know you had a disfigured hand. I am glad you are okay. You know, I have never heard of God re-growing anyone's limb throughout human history whatsoever. If this happened today it would be on national news. Even Kim Kardashian would have a stake in this. :lol:


Plenty of mass animal deaths from no known thing have happened over a few years, yet are barely covered nationally. That's pretty noticable too.

@Fnord: I can't really explain right now in detail, bt it usually has to deal with man's free will, whether it's your's or somebody else. Again, I don't have the time right now to be specific.